Question of aborted landing after instrument approach

It isn't. However, a go-around started in IMC far enough past the MAP at an airport where the missed approach procedure does not provide obstacle clearance if it's started past the MAP could certainly qualify as an emergency for purposes of choosing a course of action.


Read AIM 5.5.5

I did. Read AIM 5.5.5 (a)(4), which makes my point.

Jose
--
"There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing. Unfortunately, nobody knows
what they are." - (mike).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Just as starting a missed approach procedure too early, flying
the missed too late can put you into unprotected airspace.
No doubt about it. Nonetheless, his answer is still correct.

I'm not going to argue what the word "correct" means when following the
procedure can put you into unprotected airspace. However, his answer is
still =dangerous=, flip, un-thought-out, and he hasn't returned here to
discuss it with us. His answer was merely a hook to promote his web site.

Spam, in other words.

I suspect that his web site is equally dangerous and un-thought-out,
though perhaps a revenue producer for him. I would not patronize it.

Jose
--
"There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing. Unfortunately, nobody knows
what they are." - (mike).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

I don't see any reference to ODP as an emergency procedure in AIM
5-5-5. It simply says fly the missed approach if you can't make the
landing. It also tells you what to do if you start the missed approach
prior to reaching the MAP. It doesn't say anything about what to do if
you start the missed approach after the MAP, but AIM 5-4-21 does. It
clearly states that you are expected to fly the ODP.




Sam Spade wrote:
Andrew Sarangan wrote:
Why is ODP an emergency procedure?

Because it is not in accordance with your air traffic clearance. See
AIM 5-5-5.

Jose wrote:
It isn't. However, a go-around started in IMC far enough past the
MAP at an airport where the missed approach procedure does not
provide obstacle clearance if it's started past the MAP could
certainly qualify as an emergency for purposes of choosing a course
of action.



Read AIM 5.5.5


I did. Read AIM 5.5.5 (a)(4), which makes my point.

Jose

It does? Help me understand your logic.

5.5.5. (a) (4)

4. If executing a missed approach prior to reaching the MAP, fly the
lateral navigation path of the instrument procedure to the MAP. Climb to
the altitude specified in the missed approach procedure, except when a
maximum altitude is specified between the final approach fix (FAF) and
the MAP. In that case, comply with the maximum altitude restriction.
Note, this may require a continued descent on the final approach.

Andrew Sarangan wrote:

I don't see any reference to ODP as an emergency procedure in AIM
5-5-5. It simply says fly the missed approach if you can't make the
landing. It also tells you what to do if you start the missed approach
prior to reaching the MAP. It doesn't say anything about what to do if
you start the missed approach after the MAP, but AIM 5-4-21 does. It
clearly states that you are expected to fly the ODP.


Read that as you choose.

You will be operating contrary to your clearance. Tell me how you do
that without declaring an emergency or obtaining an amended clearane

The latter won't happen in a non-radar environment.

Ray wrote:

Chad Speer wrote:

*****
AIM 5-4-21(g)
"Missed approach obstacle clearance is predicated on beginning the
missed approach procedure at the MAP from MDA or DA and then climbing
200 feet/NM or greater. Initiating a go-around after passing the
published MAP may result in total loss of obstacle clearance. To
compensate for the possibility of reduced obstacle clearance during a
go-around, a pilot should apply procedures used in takeoff planning.
Pilots should refer to airport obstacle and departure data prior to
initiating an instrument approach procedure."
*****

I don't think this advises against the use of a missed approach
procedure, it just explains that there is reduced obstacle clearance if
you are beyond the MAP or below the MDA/DH and the pilot should
consider that and become familiar with the obstacles.


Yeah, I agree - it all depends on the situation. The same section of
the AIM (5-4-21(c)) indicates that at the minimum circling altitude, the
missed approach can be initiated from anywhere within the circling
approach area - so obviously if you are able to make it back up to the
minimum circling altitude within the circling approach area it will be
safe to execute the missed. But as has been pointed out there are
definitely airports from which it is not possible to execute the missed
approach from below the DH.

During my instrument training we would often do a touch and go before
flying the missed approach in order to log cross country time.

- Ray




The language about missing out of a circle-to-land is providing some
measure of guidance but does not imply that there is critera protecting
such a maneuver. If the missed approach point is at the runway or over
the airport (true most, but not all cases) the circle-to-land abort
should work. But, you are at MDA, not way below it in the case of high
HATs (or HAA in the case of circling).

The missed approach evaluation starts climbing at the MAP for
non-precision IAPs. There is no exception.

It does? Help me understand your logic.

One doesn't just "fly the missed approach" regardless of where on the
approach one is when they decide to miss. That was the flip answer
given by the spammer. One must modify one's procedure depending on
circumstances. 5.5.5.a4 gives one example - fly the lateral approach
path while (usually) climbing, but don't actually fly the missed
approach path until the MAP. This is an example of flying "what it
takes" to put you on the missed approach path.

It's not my point that an ODP is necessary if one misses =after= passing
the MAP (though that may in fact be needed in some cases). Rather, my
point is that the spammer's flip answer is dangerous due to lack of
thought, and makes me suspect that the spammer's web site is equally
dangerous. In aviation, lack of thought can kill.

Jose
--
"There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing. Unfortunately, nobody knows
what they are." - (mike).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose wrote:
It does? Help me understand your logic.


One doesn't just "fly the missed approach" regardless of where on the
approach one is when they decide to miss. That was the flip answer
given by the spammer. One must modify one's procedure depending on
circumstances. 5.5.5.a4 gives one example - fly the lateral approach
path while (usually) climbing, but don't actually fly the missed
approach path until the MAP. This is an example of flying "what it
takes" to put you on the missed approach path.

The thread started about missing the approach below MDA, which
presumably would be beyond the missed approach point. Without a margin
of performance that could become problematic. (As do many ODPs that
have climb gradient requirements much steeper than a missed approach
commenced at MDA and at the MAP.

The language you cite is for someone who decides to miss well prior to
the MAP. The guidance you cite in that instance is in no way
improvising, but is what the criteria protects for by default.

Sam Spade wrote:
Newps wrote:



Jim Macklin wrote:

On a missed approach begun early, prior to reaching the MAP, climb to
the missed approach altitude but do not turn until reaching the MAP
or that point indicated on the chart. If a turn is indicated,
perform that turn as charted, but not prior to the expected position
past the MAP.





From a well known instrument instructor and writer:


I don't believe this is true. Follow the instructions WHEREVER you
start the miss, and there is no need to fly to the MAP, UNLESS specified.

Standard challenge of mine for many decades: Find me an approach
anywhere where executing the miss as stated will get you in trouble
if you miss "early" inside the FAF.

I've no objection if you DO it to feel good, but I don't believe it
is a REQUIREMENT, built into the system.


Best...
John


John obviously doesn't know TERPs criteria.




So name an approach where you get in trouble by flying the published
missed prior to the MAP where it doesn't say on the plate specifically
not to do that.

Newps wrote:


Sam Spade wrote:

Newps wrote:



Jim Macklin wrote:

On a missed approach begun early, prior to reaching the MAP, climb
to the missed approach altitude but do not turn until reaching the
MAP or that point indicated on the chart. If a turn is indicated,
perform that turn as charted, but not prior to the expected position
past the MAP.






From a well known instrument instructor and writer:


I don't believe this is true. Follow the instructions WHEREVER you
start the miss, and there is no need to fly to the MAP, UNLESS
specified.

Standard challenge of mine for many decades: Find me an approach
anywhere where executing the miss as stated will get you in trouble
if you miss "early" inside the FAF.

I've no objection if you DO it to feel good, but I don't believe it
is a REQUIREMENT, built into the system.


Best...
John



John obviously doesn't know TERPs criteria.





So name an approach where you get in trouble by flying the published
missed prior to the MAP where it doesn't say on the plate specifically
not to do that.


The problem is what he says, "There is to need to fly to the MAP,
unless specified."

There is no problem beginning the missed approach early. There is a
huge problem not continuing to the MAP (as you climb, of course) on an
early missed approach.