SR-71

... except that the last piece of type is also held in place by something.


Not always. The printer that demonstrated this was setting type on an
actual printing press when he showed me, so I saw it first-hand.

So, how was that last piece of type held in place?

Jose
--
"There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing. Unfortunately, nobody knows
what they are." - (mike).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...

To compensate for this, printing press operators and typesetters ignored
the editors made a command decision: They started tucking the [.] inside
the
square [' '] piece in order to secure it and hold it still. According
to an old typesetter at the Oregon State printing press, that's why the
period
goes inside the quote as such: [.][' '] (end of line)

Urban legend. This would not explain why the period goes outside
quotation marks in British typography.

As I mentioned in the previous message, this -fact- was demonstrated to me
by a printer while he was setting type on an old printing press on the
university campus where I studied Journalism. The British typography
statement assumes that British printers used the same equipment, which may
not be the case.

Similar to the way people prefer to gather their flying knowledge from those
who fly, I prefer to get my printing press history from a printing press
operator, especially while he's in the process of operating a vintage
printing press.

Strange thing to create an urban legend about, by the way.

-c

"Jose" wrote in message
news
... except that the last piece of type is also held in place by
something.

Not always. The printer that demonstrated this was setting type on an
actual printing press when he showed me, so I saw it first-hand.

So, how was that last piece of type held in place?

If I remember correctly, it was supposed to snap in and sit snug against the
previous text. The completed plate sat up not quite vertically, but near it.
I don't know what they used to fill the space between the end of the type
and the end of the line, but I have no particular reason to think the guy
was making it up when he told me--while he was setting the type--or why he
would spread such an "urban legend" if the press he was demonstrating
contradicted it.

-c

I don't know what they used to fill the space between the end of the type
and the end of the line, but I have no particular reason to think the guy
was making it up when he told me--while he was setting the type--or why he
would spread such an "urban legend" if the press he was demonstrating
contradicted it.

I thought he actually demonstrated it to you, rather than just told you.

Jose
--
"There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing. Unfortunately, nobody knows
what they are." - (mike).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

gatt writes:

As I mentioned in the previous message, this -fact- was demonstrated to me
by a printer while he was setting type on an old printing press on the
university campus where I studied Journalism.

History is not subject to demonstration. The fact that a printer
might be able to cause the event in question does not mean that it was
the motivation for placing periods inside quotation marks.

The placement of other punctuation inside or outside quotation marks
has long been a matter of style that differs between the U.S. and the
U.K.

The British typography statement assumes that British printers used
the same equipment, which may not be the case.

Movable type was universal at one time, in the not so distant past.

People like to have explanations for things, even if they have to
invent them. This explanation reminds me of the Latin teacher's
explanation for _porta_ that I heard. Supposedly the teacher said
that the word came from the fact that ancient Romans had to lift the
plow creating the foundations wherever there was a door. Same
principle.

Similar to the way people prefer to gather their flying knowledge from those
who fly, I prefer to get my printing press history from a printing press
operator, especially while he's in the process of operating a vintage
printing press.

Unless he was there originally, he wouldn't know any more than I
would.

Strange thing to create an urban legend about, by the way.

Strange things are especially prone to produce urban legends. It's
like water spiraling down a drain or the curved shape of a wing
producing lift (to get back to general aviation).

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

"Jose" wrote in message
...
I don't know what they used to fill the space between the end of the type
and the end of the line, but I have no particular reason to think the guy
was making it up when he told me--while he was setting the type--or why
he would spread such an "urban legend" if the press he was demonstrating
contradicted it.

I thought he actually demonstrated it to you, rather than just told you.

No, he didn't break the production equipment anymore than a professional
pilot damages his airplane to demonstrate that it can happen.

Are you REALLY this interested in it? If so, then I'll downshift:

The typesetter was setting up a print job on a vintage printing press. As
he was doing it and describing the process, he explained that the quotes go
on the outside of the period so the period doesn't lean outward and
potentially snap off during the printing process. That's all I know about
it. If you think he was underqualified to explain such a thing or was
somehow being dishonest, or you think I just pulled all of this out of my
ass for the sheer hell of it, then show me what you have to the contrary.

This incident happened at the OSU Printing Press on the southwest corner of
15th and Washington in Corvallis, OR in the spring of 1991 The building
burned down in the summer of 1991 so unfortunately the geological
coordinates won't do any good if you wanted to try to Google Earth down the
building's vent pipe or something. I toured the facility and spoke with
the press operator as part of a senior-level journalism studies class.

Any other questions?

-c

If you think he was underqualified to explain such a thing or was
somehow being dishonest, or you think I just pulled all of this out of my
ass for the sheer hell of it, then show me what you have to the contrary.

I use Microsoft Word, which simulates a printing press. So there.

Actually, old wives tales persist even among the qualified. Ask ten
pilots about lean-of-peak operations and you'll get twelve incompatible
replies.

I suppose that if the type were held together by a block that was not as
high as the letters, this outward bending could occur (and would be more
severe for a printing character because of the contact with the rollers
and paper). I've actually worked at a hand printing press with movable
type, but it was so long ago I don't remember enough details for that to
be very useful. (It was in the Dominican Republic, I was eight.)

I remember a prior discussion (here even) about this very point, and the
arguments brought up then convinced me that it was probably an OWT. I
could be wrong about that... I haven't been wrong at all this year and
I'm probably due for an error. This could be the one.

Jose
--
"There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing. Unfortunately, nobody knows
what they are." - (mike).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

gatt writes:

Are you REALLY this interested in it?

Interested, but not in an aviation forum.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Jose writes:

I thought he actually demonstrated it to you, rather than just told you.

It's hard to demonstrate urban legends.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...

As I mentioned in the previous message, this -fact- was demonstrated to
me
by a printer while he was setting type on an old printing press on the
university campus where I studied Journalism.

History is not subject to demonstration.

Nor is it subject to some usenet geek deciding without supporting evidence
what's urban legend and not.

If you think it's an urban legend, than show me what you have. Otherwise,
as a graduate of the School of Journalism, I'll give folks the same advice
the pilots have been giving you out here; don't stick your nose in stuff
you don't know unless you've got something to demonstrate that you do, in
fact, know it. I'll take an actual printing press operator's word over
yours as quickly as I'll take an pilot's. Sorry. Experience and credential
still mean more to me than something you might have read on the internet.

The fact that a printer might be able to cause the event in question does
not mean that it was
the motivation for placing periods inside quotation marks.

Thanks. If I need your analysis of American grammar and print history, I'll
ask for it.


-c