Lessons learned from the Oregon tragedy

wrote:
Matt Whiting wrote:

I know that is the standard advice, but I'm not sure I could follow it
for more than a day or two. Personally, I'd rather die trying than die
sitting waiting on someone who may never come.


I know what you're saying Matt, but I don't think I've ever heard of
anybody dying in their car when they got stuck. I'm sure there's a
couple of cases, but from all the stories I've heard in our general
area (you're in Montrose right?) the vast majority of exposure deaths
were when people left a protective shelter.

There are a few of these deaths every winter, from somewhere in the
West. Last winter's most memorable was a guy who was only about 100
yards from a working payphone and a trailmarker - with instructions on
how to get help. He died of thirst and hypothermia. Can't remember
which range of mountains. He wrote in his journal, IIRC - but
apparently never got out of the car * at all * - took about three days!

But, I was wondering about this very same issue. Given that it snowed
the first night, then rained for 3 days (Mrs. Kim's account) - and that
they had water, if not food - just how cold do you think it was inside
that car each night?

I'm thinking they had no blankets or insulation of any kind - he
obviously had a few pieces of clothing and was probably wearing all of
them.

How long would it have taken for them all to die of starvation,
hypothermia, etc., you think?

A.

Atalanta Beauregard writes:

How long would it have taken for them all to die of starvation,
hypothermia, etc., you think?

At least a month or two for any risk of starvation. Hypothermia is a
much more pressing danger.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Lesson learned from a bush pilot: Get into the airplane prepared to walk
home.

Bob Gardner

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
...
Basic gear, whether driving or flying...
warm, clothes and boots, Gore-Tex, Thinsulate, warm hat and
a balaclava. Bright colors, blaze orange. A change of
socks. Signal mirror, matches and a Zippo lighter even if
you don't smoke.
Some tools, a folding shovel, a pocket knife, a small
hatchet.
Some high energy food stuff, jerky. Water, take some fresh
liter bottles, if it is below freezing, put the unfrozen
bottles inside your coat and your body will keep them
liquid.
Stay dry, stay out of the wind, stay dry.
In a car, run the engine only 10 minutes out of every hour,
use blankets to add insulation inside the car and cover the
windows at night. Buy a bright colored car.

Have flares and smoke. Tell somebody where you plan to go
and a call-in schedule so the searchers can start looking.

Cotton clothes get wet and don't dry quickly. Wool and
modern synthetics are warmer even when wet/damp.

See sportsman's catalogs such as Cabela's www.cabelas.com
and mountain sports catalogs www.rei.com and stay dry.

There is a story I read, probably 40 years ago, about a
northern Minnesota resident who lived 30 miles from town.
Monthly he would take his snowmobile and sleds to town to
buy supplies. One day his snowmobile broke down and he
tried to fix it but could not. By that time he was very
cold, temperatures were below zero F and win chills were
lower still. He tried to light a fire, but the wood he
could find was wet. He did have thousands of wooden matches
since he had just bought a big supply. Bit he couldn't get
the fire started. A day or two later the searchers found
his body and saw all the attempts to start a fire that had
failed.

He was so cold by the time he started to think about
survival shelter and a fire he couldn't think and didn't use
the 50 gallons of kerosene, or the gasoline he had on the
sled and in the snowmobile.

First thing, shelter, second start a fire while you're still
warm and can think. Improve your shelter. Stay dry.





"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
ups.com...
| perhaps something as simple as a hand held GPS could have
saved him. Or,
| even a hand held radio.
|
| It went well beyond that. Mr. Kim drove his family into
mountainous
| country, above the snow line, wearing tennis shoes and
light clothing.
| His chances of hiking out were almost nil.
|
| I know he wasn't expecting to take a wrong turn, and I
know he wasn't
| expecting to get stuck in the snow, and I know he wasn't
from that part
| of the country -- but the unfortunate Mr. Kim apparently
did not take
| even the most basic precautions.
|
| We keep a giant Tupperware container of survival gear in
each of our
| vehicles. In that kit is warm clothing, some food,
chemical hand/feet
| warmers jumper cables, flash lights, tools -- the basic
survival stuff.
| We have an even more extensive kit in our airplane,
knowing that the
| *average* time from crash to rescue is 18 hours in the
United States --
| plenty long to die of exposure in the Midwest.
| --
| Jay Honeck
| Iowa City, IA
| Pathfinder N56993
| www.AlexisParkInn.com
| "Your Aviation Destination"
|

Over water, life jackets and a raft, water temps below 80
degrees, an exposure suit.
Desert hot weather, lots of water, reflective "space
blankets" for shade, proper shoes.
Cold weather, clothes designed to keep you dry and warm,
boots, warm hat, gloves, food, water, pre-planning.


"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
. ..
| Lesson learned from a bush pilot: Get into the airplane
prepared to walk
| home.
|
| Bob Gardner
|
| "Jim Macklin" wrote
in message
| ...
| Basic gear, whether driving or flying...
| warm, clothes and boots, Gore-Tex, Thinsulate, warm hat
and
| a balaclava. Bright colors, blaze orange. A change of
| socks. Signal mirror, matches and a Zippo lighter even
if
| you don't smoke.
| Some tools, a folding shovel, a pocket knife, a small
| hatchet.
| Some high energy food stuff, jerky. Water, take some
fresh
| liter bottles, if it is below freezing, put the unfrozen
| bottles inside your coat and your body will keep them
| liquid.
| Stay dry, stay out of the wind, stay dry.
| In a car, run the engine only 10 minutes out of every
hour,
| use blankets to add insulation inside the car and cover
the
| windows at night. Buy a bright colored car.
|
| Have flares and smoke. Tell somebody where you plan to
go
| and a call-in schedule so the searchers can start
looking.
|
| Cotton clothes get wet and don't dry quickly. Wool and
| modern synthetics are warmer even when wet/damp.
|
| See sportsman's catalogs such as Cabela's
www.cabelas.com
| and mountain sports catalogs www.rei.com and stay dry.
|
| There is a story I read, probably 40 years ago, about a
| northern Minnesota resident who lived 30 miles from
town.
| Monthly he would take his snowmobile and sleds to town
to
| buy supplies. One day his snowmobile broke down and he
| tried to fix it but could not. By that time he was very
| cold, temperatures were below zero F and win chills were
| lower still. He tried to light a fire, but the wood he
| could find was wet. He did have thousands of wooden
matches
| since he had just bought a big supply. Bit he couldn't
get
| the fire started. A day or two later the searchers
found
| his body and saw all the attempts to start a fire that
had
| failed.
|
| He was so cold by the time he started to think about
| survival shelter and a fire he couldn't think and didn't
use
| the 50 gallons of kerosene, or the gasoline he had on
the
| sled and in the snowmobile.
|
| First thing, shelter, second start a fire while you're
still
| warm and can think. Improve your shelter. Stay dry.
|
|
|
|
|
| "Jay Honeck" wrote in message
|
ups.com...
| | perhaps something as simple as a hand held GPS could
have
| saved him. Or,
| | even a hand held radio.
| |
| | It went well beyond that. Mr. Kim drove his family
into
| mountainous
| | country, above the snow line, wearing tennis shoes and
| light clothing.
| | His chances of hiking out were almost nil.
| |
| | I know he wasn't expecting to take a wrong turn, and I
| know he wasn't
| | expecting to get stuck in the snow, and I know he
wasn't
| from that part
| | of the country -- but the unfortunate Mr. Kim
apparently
| did not take
| | even the most basic precautions.
| |
| | We keep a giant Tupperware container of survival gear
in
| each of our
| | vehicles. In that kit is warm clothing, some food,
| chemical hand/feet
| | warmers jumper cables, flash lights, tools -- the
basic
| survival stuff.
| | We have an even more extensive kit in our airplane,
| knowing that the
| | *average* time from crash to rescue is 18 hours in the
| United States --
| | plenty long to die of exposure in the Midwest.
| | --
| | Jay Honeck
| | Iowa City, IA
| | Pathfinder N56993
| | www.AlexisParkInn.com
| | "Your Aviation Destination"
| |
|
|
|
|

Jim Macklin wrote:

He was so cold by the time he started to think about
survival shelter and a fire he couldn't think and didn't use
the 50 gallons of kerosene, or the gasoline he had on the
sled and in the snowmobile.


Once hypothermia sets in, you are on very dangerous ground. Typically
a person will start doing very irrational things like throw their
jacket away, or in this case, forget about the kerosene.

He was so cold by the time he started to think about
survival shelter and a fire he couldn't think and didn't use
the 50 gallons of kerosene, or the gasoline he had on the
sled and in the snowmobile.


Once hypothermia sets in, you are on very dangerous ground. Typically
a person will start doing very irrational things like throw their
jacket away, or in this case, forget about the kerosene.

I've both read that from reliable sources and heard the same from a former
coworker who was simply lucky enouth to be rescued in time.

Also included in my coworker's story was that he had ceased feeling cold,
and that the snow started to look warm and comfortable.

Peter

Hypoxia and freezing to death are both said to be the best
way to go, except for being exhausted by a team of Swedish
bikini ski team girls.



"Peter Dohm" wrote in message
news:PtYeh.1114$U6.786@bigfe9...
| He was so cold by the time he started to think about
| survival shelter and a fire he couldn't think and
didn't use
| the 50 gallons of kerosene, or the gasoline he had on
the
| sled and in the snowmobile.
|
|
| Once hypothermia sets in, you are on very dangerous
ground. Typically
| a person will start doing very irrational things like
throw their
| jacket away, or in this case, forget about the kerosene.
|
| I've both read that from reliable sources and heard the
same from a former
| coworker who was simply lucky enouth to be rescued in
time.
|
| Also included in my coworker's story was that he had
ceased feeling cold,
| and that the snow started to look warm and comfortable.
|
| Peter
|
|