Flight Following question

Stan Prevost wrote:
: Flight Following questionJim, as others have indicated, it can be variable.
: I have had most luck with "Request flight following to destination" or
: "Request to be put into the system for flight following to destination". Or
: you can just file an ATC flight plan for VFR flight following. That
: automatically puts you into the system.

I've got a VFR friend who always files (but doesn't open) an IFR flight plan for longer cross-countries. That way, the
flight is in the system for the whole route, so it's (at least alegedly) easier for the controller to find. Not sure how much
truth there is to that, but it does make some sense.

-Cory


--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA *
* Electrical Engineering *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

wrote:



I've got a VFR friend who always files (but doesn't open) an IFR flight plan for longer cross-countries. That way, the
flight is in the system for the whole route, so it's (at least alegedly) easier for the controller to find. Not sure how much
truth there is to that, but it does make some sense.

Doesn't do a damn thing. When an aircraft takes off VFR with an IFR on
file the ground controller throws away the IFR strip. He was the only
guy with that strip. No facility would ever generate that strip unless
he actually takes off IFR or he calls to activate the IFR flight plan,
then every succeeding facility would generate one. Two hours after the
P time an unopened IFR flight plan is automatically erased from the system.

wrote:

I've got a VFR friend who always files (but doesn't open) an IFR flight plan for longer cross-countries. That way, the
flight is in the system for the whole route, so it's (at least alegedly) easier for the controller to find. Not sure how much
truth there is to that, but it does make some sense.


If it's never opened it will remain a proposed flight plan at the
departure point until it times out two hours after the proposed
departure time. Controllers along the route will not have it.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
wrote:

I've got a VFR friend who always files (but doesn't open) an IFR flight plan for longer cross-countries. That way, the
flight is in the system for the whole route, so it's (at least alegedly) easier for the controller to find. Not sure how much
truth there is to that, but it does make some sense.


If it's never opened it will remain a proposed flight plan at the
departure point until it times out two hours after the proposed
departure time. Controllers along the route will not have it.

But if the VFR friend requested FF, it would be "opened" and the
controllers would have the strip all along the route, right?

John Clonts wrote:

But if the VFR friend requested FF, it would be "opened" and the
controllers would have the strip all along the route, right?


Right.

: John Clonts wrote:
:
: But if the VFR friend requested FF, it would be "opened" and the
: controllers would have the strip all along the route, right?
:

: Right.

Ooops... that's what I meant to say in my post, but apparently didn't. He
*files* IFR and although doesn't accept an IFR clearance, he does request flight
following after takeoff. So, in that instance the strip *is* in the the system
throughout, making it easier/more likely for FF handoffs?

-Cory

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA *
* Electrical Engineering *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

wrote:

Ooops... that's what I meant to say in my post, but apparently didn't. He
*files* IFR and although doesn't accept an IFR clearance, he does request flight
following after takeoff. So, in that instance the strip *is* in the the system
throughout, making it easier/more likely for FF handoffs?


Yes. You can file an IFR flight plan with a requested altitude of
"VFR" or "VFR/(planned VFR cruise altitude)". Once a departure message
is entered the strips will process just like an IFR flight and will
enable automated handoffs. Be advised that this won't work in al areas
because some facilities inhibit the processing of flight plans with
"VFR" as the altitude.

Okay, here's my question. When I get FF on a long trip, often I get handed
off from centers, approaches, etc. to my destination. I have been put "in
the system" along the way. How do controllers do that so the handoff
happens? Does the original entry into the system generate P strips along
the route like an IFR flight? If so, how do they do it so that the flight
is not IFR? Do they "force" the VFR aspect like this thread has been
discussing? Is the handoff automatic, or does it get coordinated by land
line, or both?

But if the VFR friend requested FF, it would be "opened" and the
controllers would have the strip all along the route, right?

LWG wrote:
Okay, here's my question. When I get FF on a long trip, often I get handed
off from centers, approaches, etc. to my destination. I have been put "in
the system" along the way.

By the very first controller.



How do controllers do that so the handoff
happens?

Very similar to IFR aircraft. I put in N number, Destination, Type and
Altitude. In that order and hit enter. Out spits a center code.


Does the original entry into the system generate P strips along
the route like an IFR flight?

Yes.



If so, how do they do it so that the flight
is not IFR?

The process I listed above is VFR only. The other way is to use the
other computer and enter a flight plan and use VFR/075 as an altitude.
Either one results in a VFR tag.





Do they "force" the VFR aspect like this thread has been
discussing?


They both result in a VFR tag and strips.





Is the handoff automatic,


It is automated. Each facility can make the handoff automatic with some
massaging of the software. Normally the controller will have to take a
positive action to effect the handoff. He'll use his electronic cursor,
slew out and enter on the aircraft and hit enter.



or does it get coordinated by land
line, or both?

It can always be manually handed off via the landline.




But if the VFR friend requested FF, it would be "opened" and the
controllers would have the strip all along the route, right?

Yep.

"LWG" wrote in message
...
Okay, here's my question. When I get FF on a long trip, often I get
handed off from centers, approaches, etc. to my destination. I have been
put "in the system" along the way. How do controllers do that so the
handoff happens? Does the original entry into the system generate P
strips along the route like an IFR flight? If so, how do they do it so
that the flight is not IFR? Do they "force" the VFR aspect like this
thread has been discussing? Is the handoff automatic, or does it get
coordinated by land line, or both?

But if the VFR friend requested FF, it would be "opened" and the
controllers would have the strip all along the route, right?

Years ago, when radar was steam powered and the tower's light guns burned
whale oil, there were two semi-separate "flightplan" systems: ARTS which
generated the datablocks on the radar indicator and FDEP (later called FDIO)
which generated the paper flight progress strips.

Separate because there were two different keyboards to enter data and two
different formats for entering that data. Each controller had an ARTS
keyboard at his position but in terminal facilities there were usually only
one or two FDEP keyboards. These were located at the Flight Data or
Clearance Delivery positions away from working sector controllers.

Semi-separate because while the FDEP not only generated the paper strip it
also generated a datablock with a center transponder code and sent
everything to every facility along the aircraft's proposed route, the ARTS
did not. ARTS datablocks used local codes and remained solely within the
facility generating them. They were also much easier to create requiring
less info and fewer keystrokes.

So now the stage is set for a couple scenarios:

Scenario 1. Mister VFR aircraft files a VFR flightplan into the IFR system
which generates the strip and center code datablock in the originating and
subsequent facilities' airspace. He then calls CD, gets the center code,
tags up on departure, is handed off to each facility along his route, and
receives FF all during his flight. Everybody's happy unless or until:

-One or more of the facilities has inhibited the processing of VFR flight
data
-One controller is too busy to provide FF, terminates radar service and
drops the datablock which removes it from the FDEP and therefore all the
remaining facilities along the route
-The next controller is too busy to accept the handoff and the track gets
dropped (see above)
-For some reason the aircraft doesn't immediately tag up so on initial
contact the controller thinks it's a pop-up and enters the data into the
ARTS. This either generates a series of computer input error messages for
"dupe ID" (bad) or a local datablock on a local code (not too bad).
Depending on how the controller decides to sort all this out the aircraft
may stay in the system or it may get dropped

Scenario 2a. Mister VFR airplane pops up on freq and requests FF (either
initially or because he got dropped somewhere along the route). The
controller enters the simple data in ARTS format into his readily available
ARTS keyboard, issues the local transponder code, gets an ARTS generated
datablock (which is all he needs to keep track of the airplane), and
workload permitting, provides FF within his airspace. Easy.

Scenario 2b. Mister VFR aircraft calls and in addition to the ARTS entries,
the controller gets on the intercom to CD/FD to have that controller enter
the more detailed info into the FDEP or if CD/FD's not staffed, gets up,
goes to the FDEP keyboard, enters the info into the FDEP, waits for the
center computer to generate the strip and datablock with the center code,
issues the new code to the aircraft, waits for the new datablock to tag up,
then provides FF within his airspace. A PITA.

In Scenario 2a when the aircraft nears the limit of his airspace the
controller terminates radar, drops the local datablock, and he's done.

In Scenario 2b, the controller can start the automated handoff to center,
wait for center to accept or refuse, transfer communications if accepted or
terminate radar if refused, and then he's done.

That's how it worked in the past.

Maybe in the last few years or so the FAA has actually integrated the
systems, streamlined the procedures, and hired a whole bunch of controllers
who really like to do a bunch of extra work for VFR aircraft.

Sure they have.