IFR Cancellation Question

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in
ups.com:

A Lieberma wrote:

If it's an IFR plane in front of you, you won't be cleared for the
visual to an UNcontrolled airport until that plane cancels his IFR.

An uncontrolled airport is literally shut down for IFR arrivals until
that IFR cancellation is received by the plane in front of you. Thus
the courtesy / importance to cancel as soon as you can so the person
behind you won't have to hold.


That's not correct. Visual separation can be used between multiple
aircraft conducting visual approaches at uncontrolled airports.

What you say Steve could very well be, but in my three short years working
in the IFR system, I have yet to be cleared for a visual with another IFR
plane in front of me in VMC conditions.

I have been vectored for "separation" which I took it to mean that I would
have to wait until IFR cancellation was received from the plane in front of
me.

Sounds like different handling from different controllers???

Dunno, but the above has been my experiences (can't say if it's
"technically" correct, but my experiences nether the less).

Allen

A Lieberma wrote:

What you say Steve could very well be, but in my three short years working
in the IFR system, I have yet to be cleared for a visual with another IFR
plane in front of me in VMC conditions.

Happened to me yesterday at Dulles. Reported the MD80 ahead of me
in sight, got cleared for the visual even though we were both 5 miles
out or so.

In article ,
Ron Natalie wrote:

A Lieberma wrote:

What you say Steve could very well be, but in my three short years working
in the IFR system, I have yet to be cleared for a visual with another IFR
plane in front of me in VMC conditions.

Happened to me yesterday at Dulles. Reported the MD80 ahead of me
in sight, got cleared for the visual even though we were both 5 miles
out or so.

It might be tough to maintain visual in cruddy weather when the thing
you're trying to watch is moving 60 kts faster than you :-)

Roy Smith wrote:

What you say Steve could very well be, but in my three short years working
in the IFR system, I have yet to be cleared for a visual with another IFR
plane in front of me in VMC conditions.
Happened to me yesterday at Dulles. Reported the MD80 ahead of me
in sight, got cleared for the visual even though we were both 5 miles
out or so.

It might be tough to maintain visual in cruddy weather when the thing
you're trying to watch is moving 60 kts faster than you :-)

I'm unlikely to hit him :-)

Actually, keeping the Navion in cruise configuration until a half
mile out will keep up with an MD80 on approach.

It was the 767 breathing down my back behind me that was more of a problem.

Roy Smith wrote:




It might be tough to maintain visual in cruddy weather when the thing
you're trying to watch is moving 60 kts faster than you :-)


Depends on who's flying. The local cargo guys here do that all the
time. Report the guy in sight so you get your visual and the math you
did in your head tells you that the aircraft you are following is far
enough ahead or faster enough that it doesn't matter if you ever see him.

Roy Smith wrote:
In article ,
Ron Natalie wrote:

A Lieberma wrote:

What you say Steve could very well be, but in my three short years working
in the IFR system, I have yet to be cleared for a visual with another IFR
plane in front of me in VMC conditions.


Happened to me yesterday at Dulles. Reported the MD80 ahead of me
in sight, got cleared for the visual even though we were both 5 miles
out or so.


It might be tough to maintain visual in cruddy weather when the thing
you're trying to watch is moving 60 kts faster than you :-)


Yes, but you probably won't be following it on a visual approach in
cruddy weather.

Ron Natalie wrote in
:

A Lieberma wrote:

What you say Steve could very well be, but in my three short years
working in the IFR system, I have yet to be cleared for a visual with
another IFR plane in front of me in VMC conditions.

Happened to me yesterday at Dulles. Reported the MD80 ahead of me
in sight, got cleared for the visual even though we were both 5 miles
out or so.

You were landing at a controlled airport which I can fully understand (I.E
me reporting visual of AC in front of me and getting the instructions,
Sundowner 1943L, maintain seperation, cleared for the visual approach).

I have never received that instruction at an UNcontrolled airport. Like I
said in my prior post, I am not saying it can't be done, it's just that I
have never been cleared for the visual without the traffic in front of me
cancelling their IFR at an UNcontrolled airport.

Allen

A Lieberma wrote:

You were landing at a controlled airport which I can fully understand (I.E
me reporting visual of AC in front of me and getting the instructions,
Sundowner 1943L, maintain seperation, cleared for the visual approach).

I have never received that instruction at an UNcontrolled airport. Like I
said in my prior post, I am not saying it can't be done, it's just that I
have never been cleared for the visual without the traffic in front of me
cancelling their IFR at an UNcontrolled airport.


Odd, I seem to recall you saying in a prior post that it couldn't be
done.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in
ups.com:


A Lieberma wrote:

You were landing at a controlled airport which I can fully understand
(I.E me reporting visual of AC in front of me and getting the
instructions, Sundowner 1943L, maintain seperation, cleared for the
visual approach).

I have never received that instruction at an UNcontrolled airport.
Like I said in my prior post, I am not saying it can't be done, it's
just that I have never been cleared for the visual without the
traffic in front of me cancelling their IFR at an UNcontrolled
airport.


Odd, I seem to recall you saying in a prior post that it couldn't be
done.

Lets go this route and put the ball in your court :-)

Can you show me a reference that you can clear an IFR plane into an
UNCONTROLLED airport without receiving a cancellation from the IFR traffic
in front?

Allen

A Lieberma wrote:

Lets go this route and put the ball in your court :-)

Can you show me a reference that you can clear an IFR plane into an
UNCONTROLLED airport without receiving a cancellation from the IFR traffic
in front?


http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraff...7/atc0702.html

http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraff...7/atc0704.html