Another of those unreliable AC engines stalled on approach

Montblack wrote:
("Judah" wrote)
On the other hand, if the Pilot stalled the aircraft (either with or
without engine power) by not properly managing the airspeed across his
wings (for example by climbing too aggressively), the plane may lose its
lift (aka stall), and drop its nose somewhat suddenly.


One year at OSH, hanging out at the Ultra-Light pasture, I heard the field
announcer put a stop to pilots trying to outdo one another with over
aggressive climbouts. He was pretty stern with his warning.


Montblack

Eight or 10 years ago at Arlington a fella killed himself that way.
I watched it happen. Short takeoff and steep climb to about 200', then
a fairly steep turn to return to the runway to demonstrate the
short-field capability of the airplane (an advanced ultralight). He did
it several times until it finally bit him. The airplane went left
wing/nose down and rotated into the ground. Classic stall/spin
scenario.
Too many ultralight pilots get too little training and do too
little reading on their own. And, like the rest of us males, they hate
to be outdone and might push things farther and farther until one of
them dies and the media have more junk to feed to the masses. I can
understand the "stern" warning. That field announcer might have
witnessed the same accident I did.

Dan

writes:

And, like the rest of us males, they hate
to be outdone and might push things farther and farther until one of
them dies and the media have more junk to feed to the masses.

It's natural selection. Beyond a certain number of hours, generally
only the safe pilots survive. The angry young males are either out of
the loop or dead.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

wrote in message
oups.com...

Montblack wrote:
("Judah" wrote)
On the other hand, if the Pilot stalled the aircraft (either with or
without engine power) by not properly managing the airspeed across his
wings (for example by climbing too aggressively), the plane may lose
its
lift (aka stall), and drop its nose somewhat suddenly.


One year at OSH, hanging out at the Ultra-Light pasture, I heard the
field
announcer put a stop to pilots trying to outdo one another with over
aggressive climbouts. He was pretty stern with his warning.


Montblack

Eight or 10 years ago at Arlington a fella killed himself that way.
I watched it happen. Short takeoff and steep climb to about 200', then
a fairly steep turn to return to the runway to demonstrate the
short-field capability of the airplane (an advanced ultralight). He did
it several times until it finally bit him. The airplane went left
wing/nose down and rotated into the ground. Classic stall/spin
scenario.
Too many ultralight pilots get too little training and do too
little reading on their own. And, like the rest of us males, they hate
to be outdone and might push things farther and farther until one of
them dies and the media have more junk to feed to the masses. I can
understand the "stern" warning. That field announcer might have
witnessed the same accident I did.

Dan

About 25+ years ago at one of our local airports, in southeastern Florida,
the rag draggers used to make a very short takeoff at roughtly mid-field,
level off at around 50 feet, and make a very steep turn to transition across
the airport to their pick-up area. One had a mishap, and after that the
operation was much more conservative. I never heard the details or extent
of damage, but suspect that the apparent headwind may have only been a long
gust.

Peter

Was that accident at FXE?

Frank

"Peter Dohm" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
oups.com...

Montblack wrote:
("Judah" wrote)
On the other hand, if the Pilot stalled the aircraft (either with or
without engine power) by not properly managing the airspeed across
his
wings (for example by climbing too aggressively), the plane may lose
its
lift (aka stall), and drop its nose somewhat suddenly.


One year at OSH, hanging out at the Ultra-Light pasture, I heard the
field
announcer put a stop to pilots trying to outdo one another with over
aggressive climbouts. He was pretty stern with his warning.


Montblack

Eight or 10 years ago at Arlington a fella killed himself that way.
I watched it happen. Short takeoff and steep climb to about 200', then
a fairly steep turn to return to the runway to demonstrate the
short-field capability of the airplane (an advanced ultralight). He did
it several times until it finally bit him. The airplane went left
wing/nose down and rotated into the ground. Classic stall/spin
scenario.
Too many ultralight pilots get too little training and do too
little reading on their own. And, like the rest of us males, they hate
to be outdone and might push things farther and farther until one of
them dies and the media have more junk to feed to the masses. I can
understand the "stern" warning. That field announcer might have
witnessed the same accident I did.

Dan

About 25+ years ago at one of our local airports, in southeastern Florida,
the rag draggers used to make a very short takeoff at roughtly mid-field,
level off at around 50 feet, and make a very steep turn to transition
across
the airport to their pick-up area. One had a mishap, and after that the
operation was much more conservative. I never heard the details or extent
of damage, but suspect that the apparent headwind may have only been a
long
gust.

Peter

No, at North Perry (HWO)

Peter

"Frank Barchi" wrote in message
. net...
Was that accident at FXE?

Frank

"Peter Dohm" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
oups.com...

Montblack wrote:
("Judah" wrote)
On the other hand, if the Pilot stalled the aircraft (either with
or
without engine power) by not properly managing the airspeed across
his
wings (for example by climbing too aggressively), the plane may
lose
its
lift (aka stall), and drop its nose somewhat suddenly.


One year at OSH, hanging out at the Ultra-Light pasture, I heard the
field
announcer put a stop to pilots trying to outdo one another with over
aggressive climbouts. He was pretty stern with his warning.


Montblack

Eight or 10 years ago at Arlington a fella killed himself that way.
I watched it happen. Short takeoff and steep climb to about 200', then
a fairly steep turn to return to the runway to demonstrate the
short-field capability of the airplane (an advanced ultralight). He did
it several times until it finally bit him. The airplane went left
wing/nose down and rotated into the ground. Classic stall/spin
scenario.
Too many ultralight pilots get too little training and do too
little reading on their own. And, like the rest of us males, they hate
to be outdone and might push things farther and farther until one of
them dies and the media have more junk to feed to the masses. I can
understand the "stern" warning. That field announcer might have
witnessed the same accident I did.

Dan

About 25+ years ago at one of our local airports, in southeastern
Florida,
the rag draggers used to make a very short takeoff at roughtly
mid-field,
level off at around 50 feet, and make a very steep turn to transition
across
the airport to their pick-up area. One had a mishap, and after that the
operation was much more conservative. I never heard the details or
extent
of damage, but suspect that the apparent headwind may have only been a
long
gust.

Peter

Well... it's like this... The story was told to me one day back around 1980,
after the operational techniques had suddenly changed--and become much more
conservative. I just checked FAA's accident database for Hollywood, FL for
the period from 1970 through 1990 and found no refference to any similar
accident. At this point, I can only presume that someone was "yanking my
chain" and I made the mistake of repeating the story without checking it
out, even though such stories are now quite easy to verify.

Peter
Sorry about the incorrect report.


"Peter Dohm" wrote in message
news:1Mmih.895$_X.3@bigfe9...
No, at North Perry (HWO)

Peter

"Frank Barchi" wrote in message
. net...
Was that accident at FXE?

Frank

"Peter Dohm" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
oups.com...

Montblack wrote:
("Judah" wrote)
On the other hand, if the Pilot stalled the aircraft (either with
or
without engine power) by not properly managing the airspeed
across
his
wings (for example by climbing too aggressively), the plane may
lose
its
lift (aka stall), and drop its nose somewhat suddenly.


One year at OSH, hanging out at the Ultra-Light pasture, I heard
the
field
announcer put a stop to pilots trying to outdo one another with
over
aggressive climbouts. He was pretty stern with his warning.


Montblack

Eight or 10 years ago at Arlington a fella killed himself that
way.
I watched it happen. Short takeoff and steep climb to about 200',
then
a fairly steep turn to return to the runway to demonstrate the
short-field capability of the airplane (an advanced ultralight). He
did
it several times until it finally bit him. The airplane went left
wing/nose down and rotated into the ground. Classic stall/spin
scenario.
Too many ultralight pilots get too little training and do too
little reading on their own. And, like the rest of us males, they
hate
to be outdone and might push things farther and farther until one of
them dies and the media have more junk to feed to the masses. I can
understand the "stern" warning. That field announcer might have
witnessed the same accident I did.

Dan

About 25+ years ago at one of our local airports, in southeastern
Florida,
the rag draggers used to make a very short takeoff at roughtly
mid-field,
level off at around 50 feet, and make a very steep turn to transition
across
the airport to their pick-up area. One had a mishap, and after that
the
operation was much more conservative. I never heard the details or
extent
of damage, but suspect that the apparent headwind may have only been a
long
gust.

Peter

wrote in message
oups.com...

Montblack wrote:
("Judah" wrote)
On the other hand, if the Pilot stalled the aircraft (either with or
without engine power) by not properly managing the airspeed across his
wings (for example by climbing too aggressively), the plane may lose
its
lift (aka stall), and drop its nose somewhat suddenly.


One year at OSH, hanging out at the Ultra-Light pasture, I heard the
field
announcer put a stop to pilots trying to outdo one another with over
aggressive climbouts. He was pretty stern with his warning.


Montblack

Eight or 10 years ago at Arlington a fella killed himself that way.
I watched it happen. Short takeoff and steep climb to about 200', then
a fairly steep turn to return to the runway to demonstrate the
short-field capability of the airplane (an advanced ultralight). He did
it several times until it finally bit him. The airplane went left
wing/nose down and rotated into the ground. Classic stall/spin
scenario.

The theory about that accident in the RV community is that the pilot had
used the seatbelt on the passenger's side as a control lock, was in a rush
to leave the show, and didn't do a control check before takeoff. With the
belt latched, the elevator was in an "up" configuration, and the rest,
unfortunately, is history.

KB

snip

Dan

"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message
. ..
The theory about that accident in the RV community is that the pilot had
used the seatbelt on the passenger's side as a control lock, was in a rush
to leave the show, and didn't do a control check before takeoff. With the
belt latched, the elevator was in an "up" configuration, and the rest,
unfortunately, is history.

That was a popular theory, true, and not just among RVers. However, the
NTSB carefully looked at the possibility and while they could not with 100%
certainty exclude that possibility, the investigation showed no evidence
whatsoever that the controls were secured by the seatbelt on takeoff, and
some reasonable evidence that they were not (in particular, there was no
burn residue of the seatbelt found on the control stick, in spite of there
being seatbelt burn residue elsewhere...also, several witnesses failed to
note any unusual deflection of the elevator, as would be readily apparent if
the theory were true).

The final NTSB conclusion was "The pilot's excessive climb rate, which lead
to his failure to maintain an airspeed above stalling speed", with the
"seatbelt control lock" theory carrying no weight at all.

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?...FA105& akey=1

Pete