Wax, Teflon, Wx?

KM wrote:

Once you are done with this step, you will want to seal your freshly
polished finish by using a wax with the HIGHEST carnuba content you can
find.Several brands sell stuff that is 100% carnuba.It may not be the
easiest to use but it works best for UV protection.

Is there any documentation for carnuba's UV and moisture protection on
gel coat?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
* "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message
news:sWkkh.7731$6Z5.1910@trndny01...
KM wrote:

Once you are done with this step, you will want to seal your freshly
polished finish by using a wax with the HIGHEST carnuba content you can
find.Several brands sell stuff that is 100% carnuba.It may not be the
easiest to use but it works best for UV protection.

Is there any documentation for carnuba's UV and moisture protection on gel
coat?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
* "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org


Might be biased ( ;-) ) , but check the WxBlock website----I thinhk
they published a comparison betw WxBlock and Carnuba a few years ago. Wx
Block did much better.
Many of the newer products have UV blockers added in.

Hartley Falbaum

HL Falbaum wrote:
"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message
news:sWkkh.7731$6Z5.1910@trndny01...
KM wrote:

Is there any documentation for carnuba's UV and moisture protection on gel
coat?

There could be but I dont know for sure Eric.I probably should not have
posted that Carnuba works best for UV.I should have posted that Carnuba
works very well.Another thing that I should have posted is that the
natural ingredients in Carnuba work to moisturize your finish much in
the same way that lotion moisturizes your skin.This aids tremendously
in the longevity of your finsh.
Ultimatly, any care is better that nothing so some people will use
these easy to apply or "one step" products like those used on cars.Alot
of these will have some pretty harsh chemicals that will not be good
for your finsh over the course of time.You will want to avoid anything
with petrolium distilates in it (Which includes most of your car care
stuff).Have you ever wondered why a profesional detailer will wax a car
using a 3 step process?I would be very leary of any product that claims
to be able to seal and protect your finish in one easy step (Like
Nufinish).

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA

Might be biased ( ;-) ) , but check the WxBlock website----I thinhk
they published a comparison betw WxBlock and Carnuba a few years ago. Wx
Block did much better.
Many of the newer products have UV blockers added in.

Hartley, something to consider here is that these companies will
sponsor several "Scientific Tests" but they only publish the one
(Usually out of several) that casts their product in a favorable light.

Hartley Falbaum

Happy Holidays
K Urban

KM wrote:
Another thing that I should have posted is that the
natural ingredients in Carnuba work to moisturize your finish much in
the same way that lotion moisturizes your skin.This aids tremendously
in the longevity of your finsh.

I sincerely hope it does not trap any moisture at all in the way skin
lotion does. Water is one of the mortal enemies of gel coat damage, the
others being UV light and flexing in very low temperatures.

Any good car polish will protect against water and UV. I'd suggest
using Mer, mainly because it's so easy to apply you'll use it often.
Even the best wax in the world is useless if it's long worn off.


Dan

Dan G wrote:

I sincerely hope it does not trap any moisture at all in the way skin
lotion does. Water is one of the mortal enemies of gel coat damage, the
others being UV light and flexing in very low temperatures.

Wax does not "trap" moisture.Most waxes are designed to go on a dry
surface (unlike Mer).You are correct that most gel coats are water
soluble but only if saturated over long periods of time (like with a
leaking trailer).This does NOT mean that you shouldnt protect your
finish from oxidation by waxing it.

Any good car polish will protect against water and UV. I'd suggest
using Mer, mainly because it's so easy to apply you'll use it often.

Huge misconception here Dan! You should NEVER polish a gelcoated or
painted finsh without also waxing it.If you think about it, the main
reason to polish and wax anything is for protection and not just
appearance.By just polishing your finish you are leaving it exposed to
oxidation and UV.Go back and read the post about using a one step
product.
Here is another way to look at it; the main reason a finish exists on a
sailplane is to protect the structure from harmfull stuff like water
and UV.So it stands to reason that the better you take care of a finsh,
the longer your sailplane will last.


Dan
K Urban

KM wrote:

Dan G wrote:

I sincerely hope it does not trap any moisture at all in the way skin
lotion does. Water is one of the mortal enemies of gel coat damage, the
others being UV light and flexing in very low temperatures.

Wax does not "trap" moisture.Most waxes are designed to go on a dry
surface (unlike Mer).

Mer can be used wet or dry.

You are correct that most gel coats are water
soluble but only if saturated over long periods of time (like with a
leaking trailer).This does NOT mean that you shouldnt protect your
finish from oxidation by waxing it.

AFAIK gelcoat isn't water soluble, but it IS porous. If you allow water
to get into the structure of the coating, it can result in freeze/thaw
damage in low temps, and provides a solution for chemical attack.


Any good car polish will protect against water and UV. I'd suggest
using Mer, mainly because it's so easy to apply you'll use it often.

Huge misconception here Dan! You should NEVER polish a gelcoated or
painted finsh without also waxing it.If you think about it, the main
reason to polish and wax anything is for protection and not just
appearance.By just polishing your finish you are leaving it exposed to
oxidation and UV.Go back and read the post about using a one step
product.

People get rather pedantic about the terms wax and polish; I'm quite
lazy and tend to use them interchangeably.

To be clear, Mer has a (very) light abrasive action, just enough to
remove the oxidised and dirt-contaminated top layer (on the microscopic
scale). Usually that layer is old polish, but if the surface has been
neglected then it will be the top layer of the gelcoat/paint/whatever,
which is likely in such bad state you'll want rid of the top surface
anyway. Don't worry, it's impossible to take off so much that you'll
rub through the gelcoat or even alter the profile of the wing. The Mer
then leaves a protective layer (i.e. water proof and UV resisting) on
the surface.

Here is another way to look at it; the main reason a finish exists on a
sailplane is to protect the structure from harmfull stuff like water
and UV.So it stands to reason that the better you take care of a finsh,
the longer your sailplane will last.

Yes.


Dan

Dan G wrote:

AFAIK gelcoat isn't water soluble, but it IS porous. If you allow water
to get into the structure of the coating, it can result in freeze/thaw
damage in low temps, and provides a solution for chemical attack.

With most of the gel coats in use on sailplanes there isnt going to be
enough moisture "traped" by wax to cause any kind of "chemical
attack".My point was that if you dont wax because of a fear of this you
are probably incuring bigger concerns that just moisture.

People get rather pedantic about the terms wax and polish; I'm quite
lazy and tend to use them interchangeably.

Dan, you are not alone here, I think as a verb everyone does this.As a
noun, these are completely separate products with totally different
uses.

To be clear, Mer has a (very) light abrasive action,

Dan, many products work like this.Abrasives in wax have their pro's and
con's, mostly cons unfortunatly.I looked on the Mer website after I
read your post.Have you noticed this stuff isnt clear coat safe?Did you
also notice that they dont recomend its use on aircraft?I have emailed
them about this and they havent gotten back to me yet but I already
know the answer why.
Dan, there are alot of misconceptions out there about car care
products.I think some of this is due to the fact that modern finishes
(And gel coat for that matter) need different care than the car paints
in use 20 years ago.People want to do things the way they always
have.Old habits die hard I guess.


Dan
K Urban

don't use the UV blocking claims of many products too seriously......many
products (even clear glass!) block some UV.typically UVA, UVB but few offer
real UV protection beyond that UVC is another more harmful source of serious
damage and few if any of the advertised products offer a substantial source
to block this range (Wx/Block and Wx/Seal does). Looking at the way Wx/Block
actually does this (well beyond my knowledge of chemistry) is by actually in
layman's terms is by sacrificing of itself hence repeated applications are
needed to keep this high level of UV inhibitor active and this is why we
suggest repeated applications and annual/semi-annual rewaxing with Wx/Block
depending on the UV exposure.......and yes it also has a very high moisture
barrier included. Bob Lacovara, the designer of Wx/Block has extensive
knowledge in the areas of Gelcoat and other finishes and has given very
informational talks on the subject in previous SSA conventions.
tim
Please visit the Wings & Wheels website at:
www.wingsandwheels.com



"KM" wrote in message
ups.com...

Dan G wrote:

I sincerely hope it does not trap any moisture at all in the way skin
lotion does. Water is one of the mortal enemies of gel coat damage, the
others being UV light and flexing in very low temperatures.

Wax does not "trap" moisture.Most waxes are designed to go on a dry
surface (unlike Mer).You are correct that most gel coats are water
soluble but only if saturated over long periods of time (like with a
leaking trailer).This does NOT mean that you shouldnt protect your
finish from oxidation by waxing it.

Any good car polish will protect against water and UV. I'd suggest
using Mer, mainly because it's so easy to apply you'll use it often.

Huge misconception here Dan! You should NEVER polish a gelcoated or
painted finsh without also waxing it.If you think about it, the main
reason to polish and wax anything is for protection and not just
appearance.By just polishing your finish you are leaving it exposed to
oxidation and UV.Go back and read the post about using a one step
product.
Here is another way to look at it; the main reason a finish exists on a
sailplane is to protect the structure from harmfull stuff like water
and UV.So it stands to reason that the better you take care of a finsh,
the longer your sailplane will last.


Dan
K Urban

Tim Mara wrote:
don't use the UV blocking claims of many products too seriously......many
products (even clear glass!) block some UV.typically UVA, UVB but few offer
real UV protection beyond that UVC is another more harmful source of serious
damage and few if any of the advertised products offer a substantial source
to block this range (Wx/Block and Wx/Seal does).

Amen to your comment about UV claims Tim.Unfortunatly Lacovara also
makes some pie in the sky claims his product doesnt back up.We tried WX
Block on our fleet and it just didnt work that well.To add to this, the
stuff is obscenely expensive when compared to the stuff that the gel
coat manufacturers recomend.

Looking at the way Wx/Block
actually does this (well beyond my knowledge of chemistry) is by actually in
layman's terms is by sacrificing of itself hence repeated applications are
needed to keep this high level of UV inhibitor active and this is why we
suggest repeated applications and annual/semi-annual rewaxing with Wx/Block
depending on the UV exposure.......and yes it also has a very high moisture
barrier included.

Tim, pretty much all of the waxes work like this.They start to oxidate
the minute you finish a wax job.
Happy Holidays,
K Urban