Winpilot for contest use?

wrote:

I installed a PDA when they first became available. I fly with the ILEC
SN-10. I found the PDA to be very distracting.


The alternative viewpoint is that if you can get everything you need
off a PDA then the SN10 may be distracting.

I left room in my panel for an SN10 and even allowed for its non
standard dimensions. I later bought a used one but willingly sold it
back to the seller when she changed her mind.

I'm not knocking the SN10 but SN10+PDA = DISTRACTING does not equate to
PDA=DISTRACTING.

Whether a PDA is useful or distracting is a function of the software,
not the PDA itself. There are several software options, some better
than others, to chose from.


Andy

Hello, HL,

I wish I had kept the list, but there is specific information one needs
for various parts of a flight: before start, after start, while on
course, nearing/at a turnpoint, final glide. Add to that the what-if
solutions necessary on many flights, which the ILEC and most software
prgrams do well.

As for Andy's comment about PDAs not being more of a distraction than
any other device; the PDA / software combinations I have tried (one
PDA, 2 software packages) the glare problem on the PDA I used and the
need for frequent tapping on the screen I found to be far more annoying
and disracting than the three SN-10 pages normally used during a
typical flight.

The SN-10 fits into a standard 3 1/8" hole, but the case is slightly
larger behind the panel, so very slighty more room needs to be allowed
for adjacent instruments.

Tom Knauff


HL Falbaum wrote:
Hi Tom:

What info do you consider "necessary" ?
I know what I think I need, but I'd be interested in your view.

--
Hartley Falbaum

wrote in message
ps.com...
Hello Frank,

I installed a PDA when they first became available. I fly with the ILEC
SN-10. I found the PDA to be very distracting.

I wrote down what I "need" to know at any time during a contest/record
flight and find the SN-10 provides almost everything I need. There are
some situations when other information is needed and this is on a
sectional chart, which I carry. I have never needed to look at a
sectional chart.

There are some situations where a PDA can be very valuable such as
flying in the French Alps. There are two kinds of information -
"neccessary" and "interesting." Interesting information detracts from
my perforamce as my attention is directed inside the cockpit.

Tom Knauff



Frank wrote:
Hi,

After happily flying with my SN-10 for the last 5 or 6 years, I find
myself with a CAI 302/PDA system in my new glider. In preparation for
the upcoming racing season, I have been investigating PDA Nav software,
including GNII, SoarPilot, XCSoar, and just lately, WinPilot. I have
downloaded the WinPilot PC sim program & manual and am impressed so far
with what I see.

Anyone have positive or negative opinions regarding WinPilot for
serious racing use? Are the extra features of WinPilot Pro worth the
extra dollars?

TIA,

Frank

Tim Taylor wrote:
An interesting point last season at the 15M
nationals was the fact that the SN10 could not handle the number of
turnpoints assigned on some days.

Tim, would you explain this for me? The current rules limit tasks to
11 legs - which is exactly what the SN10 task page allows.

Obviously, a PST could have more legs, but only 11 should be scored, if
I understand the rules correctly.

By the way, my racing and XC solution is both an SN10 and a PDA running
SeeYou Mobile. I use the SN10 as the primary nav/task computer. My
PDA is setup to show only the task, major map features (for
orientation), and airports (in or out of glide range), plus some data
not available on the SN10 such as agl altitude. As such, it
complements the SN10 without competing with it (basically it is a
digital sectional).

The trick, obviously, is to only look at the magic when you need
information, not just to look at the nice numbers and pretty pictures!

Each is powered by a separate battery and supplied by a separate GPS
for redundancy if either one looses all it's blue smoke - so I can
continue to race after a hardware/software failure.

Kirk
66

Kirk,

I believe the issues was that several days during the 15m 2006 USA
Nationals an AAT task was called that had more than 5 or 6 turnpoints
and the SN-10 in the AAT mode would not allow that many points.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

kirk.stant wrote:
Tim Taylor wrote:
An interesting point last season at the 15M
nationals was the fact that the SN10 could not handle the number of
turnpoints assigned on some days.

Tim, would you explain this for me? The current rules limit tasks to
11 legs - which is exactly what the SN10 task page allows.

Obviously, a PST could have more legs, but only 11 should be scored, if
I understand the rules correctly.

By the way, my racing and XC solution is both an SN10 and a PDA running
SeeYou Mobile. I use the SN10 as the primary nav/task computer. My
PDA is setup to show only the task, major map features (for
orientation), and airports (in or out of glide range), plus some data
not available on the SN10 such as agl altitude. As such, it
complements the SN10 without competing with it (basically it is a
digital sectional).

The trick, obviously, is to only look at the magic when you need
information, not just to look at the nice numbers and pretty pictures!

Each is powered by a separate battery and supplied by a separate GPS
for redundancy if either one looses all it's blue smoke - so I can
continue to race after a hardware/software failure.

Kirk
66

Kirk,

I believe the issues was that several days during the 15m 2006 USA
Nationals an AAT task was called that had more than 5 or 6 turnpoints
and the SN-10 in the AAT mode would not allow that many points.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

Richard,

Ok, I can see that. Hard to imagine weather so unpredictable that the
CD couldn't make a simpler task! But I've CD'd local contests and
understand the pressure....

That makes me even more satisfied with my setup, since I can use the
PDA for navigation on the rare (hopefully!) tasks the SN10 is currently
unable to handle.

Time for a suggestion to Dave Nadler for a new SN10 software upgrade!

Kirk
66

Hi Frank,

I'm replying without reading any of the responses I see, so I'm prolly
not giving you much new here.

When I got into contest flying a few years ago I spent a lot of time
evaluating PDA software. I bought licenses to WinPilot Pro and SeeYou
Mobile and I like them both. I currently use WinPilot Pro but I keep my
SeeYou Mobile version up to date and use it occasionally.

If you have a 302 and choose to use WinPilot, you should absolutely
spend the few extra bucks to get the Pro version, which uses the
airspeed and vario data from the 302.

The only real gripe I have about WinPilot is that it occasionally
crashes in flight. (I've learned to expect this on MATs when I'm moving
the mobile turnpoint.) Another thing I'd like them to fix is that if I
have to restart the software in flight, I want the current task
information back (current task leg, task speed, leg speed, etc). These
are annoying "features" but I still like the software.

~ted/2NO

Tuno,

Crashing in flight is certainly a 'real gripe'! The last thing you
need from serious competition software is an in-flight crash!

Has the software developer responded at all to this situation?

Frank


wrote:

The only real gripe I have about WinPilot is that it occasionally
crashes in flight. (I've learned to expect this on MATs when I'm moving

Something I've failed to do so far is bug Richard about it. But I'll
take the occasion to write up something and send it to him.

Keep in mind that the crashing problem might be related to my
particular PDA (an HP 4700). It's the only one with VGA resolution (at
least it was six months ago) and the problem may be in how WinPilot
interfaces with that video driver. I have not heard other WinPilot
users having this problem, and I like its overall performance enough to
use it despite the problems.

BUT you should also be aware that I use two logger/nav systems; an
LX-7007 and the 302/PDA+WinPilot combo, so if one crashes I have a
backup.

For a complete vario/logger/nav package, I think the 302/PDA/WinPilot
combination is the best bang for the buck. GW likes it enough that he
flies with two complete setups and nothing else; he uses the moving map
on one and (I believe) the thermal assistant on the other.

And of course I meant to say "TAT" not "MAT" for mobile turnpoints...

~ted/2NO