Follow up Alright, All You Dashing, Swaggering Bush Pilots

Roger Halstead wrote:

snips thoughout

*Any* pilot regardless of ratings or experience has the right to post
opinions. Even a non pilot has that right. Everyone has an opinion
of what every they have to deal. The keyword is opinions.

Sure, I agree with you. But not to continuously berate and child a
first rate controller like Chip Jones who balances his airspace
competently between rookies and pro's and: lays out the staffing
problems that we line dogs have to deal with on a daily basis. Look
at one of his threads over there. Click on his name on the Google
header. If you are an IFR driver you will be impressed.

Are all controllers and people working in the system high time
commercial pilots? Maybe even a few might be week end pilots?

The ratings and time just don't necessarily translate into knowledge.

Sorry Roger in most cases it does. We have to deal with lost errant
week-end warriors all the time. On the wrong freq, stuck mike thats
wrecking the freq, unable to follow simple ATC directions, on the
wrong runway or taxiway. But that's where I came from so I'm
completely understanding about it. I frequently have to point out to
my military crewmembers who get frustrated with GA pilots, and feel
they should all be banned as hazards to navigation, that there are
more GA pilots than ATP's. Their fuel taxes built most of the
airports we air-commerce types use. But some new copilots are just as
bad. It takes a while to break all their bad habits. Odds are
though: that if you do it for a living, visit a Tracon and talk with
these haggard controllers, go have beers with these guys, you will
know like I do that IFR atc in class B has been skating on thin ice
for years. They do a good job, but they are overworked, underpaid,
and totally unappreciated by the FAA. Nothing gets fixed until
something like Avionca on Long Island happens. I had just landed at
JFK before that crash, we routinely had trouble with the controllers
screwing up: they forgot to turn on the ILS we were cleared for. It
was bad wx, and we needed everything working to shoot a CAT III
autoland. Since they forgot, it was assholes and elbows just for us
to get the 747 stabilized enough to shoot the approach. We had just
come from Heathrow, were tired and did not need this poor service from
these guys. But the morale at that tracon was reported in the press
as the "worst in the country" by a indep review of the facilities.
Things have not improved much I've heard. JFK, and BOS are always in
open time because no body wants to be subjected to that kind of stress
all the time.


Ref: your ongoing harassment for months of
Chip and the other fine controllers that post great stuff over at RAP.

One thing I've noted on RAP. Most of the old timers are no longer
there and there has been a distinct degradation of the tolerance shown
by the current posters.

Yeah, I noticed that. Seems to be full of doctors and lawyers busy
arguing with themselves about nothing.

Anyone following those fantastic threads by Chip knows what I am

I'm always suspicious when some one says "fantastic threads".

Well, when a controller starts admitting all the screw ups that happen
with equipment and controllers and management and the FAA in great
detail, it makes for fascinating reading. Yeah, you're right. Let's
change it to "very-interesting threads."


I've never posted mine and see no reason to. They serve me well and
have for many years.

You may not have that many. That's O.K. Your not berating people
who have gone to the trouble and expense and great dedication to
become professional aviators or controllers.

..

I've had controllers forget me, tell me to circle in the wrong
quadrant for a runway (they told me to circle in front of departing
traffic -- SE when it should have been SW) I've had approach tell me
to follow the guy ahead while on vectors for an approach and I
couldn't even see my wing tips. I've had them give me wrong headings
and the list goes on...Yet the pilot and controller relationship is a
two way street. We are all human...at least for the most part.

I knew they gave me the wrong circle instructions with the winds and
runways in use...I questioned it. When they forgot me, I called,
rather than blindly continue heading off in to the distance. When
they told me to follow the plane ahead I responded I would, but
unfortunately I could not see my own wing tips...(It was thick) They
responded and had me hold the heading to where I could safely descend
for the visual. I was filed into Battle Creek, they were setting me
up to expect the ILS for a runway Battle Creek doesn't have. I
questioned it as I was passing directly over Battle Creek. They
quickly came back and asked if I could make the visual for which ever
runway from my location or did I need vectors. BC and Kalamazoo share
the same approach control. And OTOH I've heard that ..."ahhh...watch
the altitude there" when I was in the process of starting to overshoot
my assigned altitude while getting the snot beat out of me. I didn't
get chewed out, or written up. It was just a friendly reminder from a
contentious controller.

You sound like a good PIC. But this is pretty pedestrian stuff
compared to complex arrivals and sequencing during peak hours into
DFW, ATL, SFO, LAX, and many airports up and down the northeastern
seaboard. Route revisions are complex, and happen fast in a jet. The
inadequacies of today's ATC are clear to drivers who have TCAS. Not a
month goes by that "the system" doesn't make a major fubar and sets
off my resolution advisory. But Sydney says the controllers are just
whining, and no different than any other government worker and that
she is tired of hearing about it. Either she doesn't fly in very
congested airspace or she's never even been off the farm I'm not sure
which. There's just no excuse for this kind of charade. The airspace
Chip Jones is discussing is ATL ATC. I'm sure Sydney has never been
into Hartsfield during peak hours skirting around bad weather. It's
nuts.

pacplyer

Roger Halstead wrote in message . ..

Ref: your ongoing harassment for months of
Chip and the other fine controllers that post great stuff over at RAP.
...
Anyone following those fantastic threads by Chip knows what I am

I'm always suspicious when some one says "fantastic threads".

Chip's threads genuinely are fantastic sometimes. IMO.

The big joke here, Roger, since I don't think you're "in"
on it, is that Chip and I have been e-friends crossing into
RL for half a decade. So it's a total *hoot* for both of
us to see me accused of "harassing" him.

Anyone is welcome to go ask Chip if he thinks he's being
"harassed" by me and see what he says. Try a big *LOL*
and "don't change a thing" (direct quote).

There's a huge "reality disconnect" between how this dude
sees my posts, how most rational people see them, and in this
instance it's particularly telling because it's so clear both
parties directly involved think he's totally out to lunch.

IMO no one but a person toting a huge personal grudge could
miss the boat so totally as "mturner" has here. I could be
mistaken, of course: he could just be seriously lacking in
reading comprehension/interpretation skills. Quite sad if true.

You certainly are talking about someone different than what I've seen
posted under that name.

Thank you Roger, I appreciate that.

But I believe you are either talking to a stooge with a capitol
A "Agenda" or a sock puppet for Badwater Bill who is well known
to have a persistant grudge against me which he's been toting
around for 5 years.

Don't know which, don't care, but suggest you leave him alone.

JMO of course.

Best,
Sydney