Out of date charts on Airnav

You can't convert from scans to PDF, though. PDF is a lot cleaner.
This statement is an outright lie.
Start Acrobat, click on "file", "import", and "scan". When done scanning,
Acrobat will convert the scan into a PDF.

Perhaps you deliberately misconstrue what he means. A PDF of a scan is
just that - a scan that has been encapsulated by a foreign format. It's
sort of like making a flash presentation out of one jpeg. Sure the
picture is there, but it is no improvement on the original.

What I suspect he means is that you can't (easily) create the formatted
text and individual graphics elements which make up a well-put-together
pdf of a document (such as an approach plate). Done that way, PDF is in
fact a lot cleaner. In the case of enroute charts, to do it "cleanly"
would probably require re-originating the charts as vector graphics and
oriented text elements.

Start Acrobat, click on "file", "import", and "scan". When done scanning,
Acrobat will convert the scan into a PDF.

Will this result in a vectorized version, or a simple graphic
encapsulated by the PDF envelope? IF the former, I'd be very impressed
- it would go beyond OCR (which itself is still not terrific). IF the
latter, there's no advantage to encapsulating it as a PDF, and many
disadvantages.

Jose
--
He who laughs, lasts.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose wrote in
om:

You can't convert from scans to PDF, though. PDF is a lot cleaner.
This statement is an outright lie.
Start Acrobat, click on "file", "import", and "scan". When done
scanning, Acrobat will convert the scan into a PDF.

Perhaps you deliberately misconstrue what he means. A PDF of a scan
is just that - a scan that has been encapsulated by a foreign format.
It's sort of like making a flash presentation out of one jpeg. Sure
the picture is there, but it is no improvement on the original.

What I suspect he means is that you can't (easily) create the
formatted text and individual graphics elements which make up a
well-put-together pdf of a document (such as an approach plate). Done
that way, PDF is in fact a lot cleaner. In the case of enroute
charts, to do it "cleanly" would probably require re-originating the
charts as vector graphics and oriented text elements.

Start Acrobat, click on "file", "import", and "scan". When done
scanning, Acrobat will convert the scan into a PDF.

Will this result in a vectorized version, or a simple graphic
encapsulated by the PDF envelope? IF the former, I'd be very
impressed - it would go beyond OCR (which itself is still not
terrific). IF the latter, there's no advantage to encapsulating it as
a PDF, and many disadvantages.

Jose

Are you a mind reader? I know I'm not.

The original statement simply said "You can't convert from scans to PDF,
though."

Where is there any qualifier about the internal structure of the PDF in
this statement? I don't see one. If there is one, please point it out. I
responded to the statement as made by the OP, not to what I might
conjecture the OP meant to say.

In and of itself, the statement made by the OP is not true.

--
Marty Shapiro
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT to email me)

Marty Shapiro writes:

This statement is an outright lie.

Not for people who understand how PDF works.

Start Acrobat, click on "file", "import", and "scan". When done scanning,
Acrobat will convert the scan into a PDF.

The "conversion" consists of putting the bitmapped image into a PDF
wrapper. That's dramatically different (and hugely larger) than a
native PDF.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Jose writes:

What I suspect he means is that you can't (easily) create the formatted
text and individual graphics elements which make up a well-put-together
pdf of a document (such as an approach plate).

Yes.

Done that way, PDF is in
fact a lot cleaner. In the case of enroute charts, to do it "cleanly"
would probably require re-originating the charts as vector graphics and
oriented text elements.

Yes. It would be easy for IFR charts, but quite difficult for VFR
charts, because they have a lot of overlapping elements that depend on
overprinted ink for partial transparency. You can see that they are
hand-drawn if you look closely. They must be a nightmare to maintain.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Marty Shapiro writes:

The original statement simply said "You can't convert from scans to PDF,
though."

Which is true.

Where is there any qualifier about the internal structure of the PDF in
this statement? I don't see one.

Since a scan is a type of data (a bitmapped image), "conversion to
PDF" implies conversion of bitmapped data to vectorized data. This is
implicit to anyone with an understanding of these technologies.
Conversion from, say, JPG to PDF would mean something different, as
those are both file formats.

In and of itself, the statement made by the OP is not true.

It is true, but you don't understand it. You would gain more by
trying to understand it than by calling anyone who describes something
you don't understand a liar.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

A Guy Called Tyketto writes:

Then you have't looked hard enough.

http://www.myairplane.com.

Consider yourself pwned in this thread. Twice.

I've tried that site before. It doesn't work. And even if it did
work, it would be extraordinarily difficult to use.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Are you a mind reader?

Yes, I am, though I'm rusty. There's nothing to practice on anymore.

Actually, we are all mind readers. Words do not transmit thoughts
completely, accurately, or reliably, and in order to reconstruct the
intended meaning, we apply context. Sometimes we get it wrong, but I
don't think I did this time.

In and of itself, the statement made by the OP is not true.

Context is important. But even though the above statement =is= true
(that the statement you referred to, taken at face value, is false),
your comment went further. You said:

This statement is an outright lie.

.... which is not the same as "That statement is false". (I will also
note, but not comment on, the misuse of the word "This", leading to a
logical connundrum in your response, if =it= is taken at face value). A
"lie" is a statement =deliberately= made to deceive. An outright lie is
one which is brazen in its deception. I'm sure you didn't quite mean
that either, but rather, wanted to say something insulting and
inflamatory to somebody who annoys you.

I find that, especially with Mx's statements (or at least the ones I
see) the application of sufficient context can reveal the source of
misunderstandings (on his part and on his audience's part too). That is
the beginning of communcation.

Mind reading, if you will.

Jose
--
He who laughs, lasts.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

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Mxsmanic wrote:
A Guy Called Tyketto writes:

Then you have't looked hard enough.

http://www.myairplane.com.

Consider yourself pwned in this thread. Twice.

I've tried that site before. It doesn't work. And even if it did
work, it would be extraordinarily difficult to use.

Actually, it does work. It requires IE6 for it to work. I have
only used it less than a handful of times (I am primarily a Linux
user), but it does indeed work. You just haven't tried hard enough.

BL.
- --
Brad Littlejohn | Email:
Unix Systems Administrator, |
Web + NewsMaster, BOFH.. Smeghead! | http://www.wizard.com/~tyketto
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In article ,
A Guy Called Tyketto wrote:

Actually, it does work. It requires IE6 for it to work.

A site that can't function with any browser but IE6 *is* broken.

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Buck Murdock wrote:
In article ,
A Guy Called Tyketto wrote:

Actually, it does work. It requires IE6 for it to work.

A site that can't function with any browser but IE6 *is* broken.

Touche.

The rest of the site works great. I can pull up charts with
Opera, Firefox, Adobe Acrobat, and Xpdf without any problems.

BL.
- --
Brad Littlejohn | Email:
Unix Systems Administrator, |
Web + NewsMaster, BOFH.. Smeghead! | http://www.wizard.com/~tyketto
PGP: 1024D/E319F0BF 6980 AAD6 7329 E9E6 D569 F620 C819 199A E319 F0BF

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