GA is priceless

On 1 Jan 2007 15:19:21 -0800, "Jay Honeck" wrote:

Is this an admission that you can't stay several minutes ahead of your plane?
You'd better let your wife do the flying from now on.

Ouch. That's low... ;-)

The point is, you don't have to stay that far ahead of any plane moving
at 130 knots. When you're moving at 250 knots, however, in a plane the
size of a 747, you make tiny little movements that make your aircraft
move to a spot in the sky a full minute or three ahead.

This is why simmers trying to land a 747 (myself included) usually
crash. We're trying to raise a wingtip with abrupt turns of the yoke
(as we would in a Cherokee, for example) -- and that just doesn't work
in an aircraft the size of a destroyer.

Our pro pilot NEVER made a motion that you could even see, yet the 747
ended up greasing the runway. It was fun to watch.

Get hooked up to fly a Bo for a few hours. They are light on the
controls and quick. I'll bet you'll enjoy it. As I've said before,
I've had experienced pilots put it into a PIO with 2 Gs out of the
bottom and zero over the top. Actually it's quite common. I can fix
it by telling them to look outside and put the horizon at a specific
spot in the windshield or covering the VSI which forces them to look
outside. The Bo, or Deb in this case is quick enough I can do a PIO
like that and keep the VSI pretty much centered.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Roger writes:

I've had experienced pilots put it into a PIO with 2 Gs out of the
bottom and zero over the top.

I give up: What's a PIO?

Isn't it bad for your aircraft to put it through 2 G stresses?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

I give up: What's a PIO?

Pilot Induced Oscillation. It's usually something that happens during
the landing flare, but can happen on a short-coupled aircraft in any
phase of flight. I wasn't aware that a Bonanza was in that category,
but apparently it is.

Isn't it bad for your aircraft to put it through 2 G stresses?

Planes are built to handle it.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck writes:

Pilot Induced Oscillation. It's usually something that happens during
the landing flare, but can happen on a short-coupled aircraft in any
phase of flight.

Like the book _Airframe_. I guess I should have remembered it.

I wasn't aware that a Bonanza was in that category, but apparently it is.

I've read about phugoid (what a bizarre word!) oscillations, both
pilot-induced and otherwise, and apparently they are universal to some
degree. When I first encountered these in simulation, I thought it
was an artifact of the simulation.

Planes are built to handle it.

Well, a 737 can handle only 2.5 Gs. That's not a very wide margin of
safety.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

In article ,
Mxsmanic wrote:

Jay Honeck writes:

Pilot Induced Oscillation. It's usually something that happens during
the landing flare, but can happen on a short-coupled aircraft in any
phase of flight.

Like the book _Airframe_. I guess I should have remembered it.

I wasn't aware that a Bonanza was in that category, but apparently it is.

I've read about phugoid (what a bizarre word!) oscillations, both
pilot-induced and otherwise, and apparently they are universal to some
degree. When I first encountered these in simulation, I thought it
was an artifact of the simulation.

Planes are built to handle it.

Well, a 737 can handle only 2.5 Gs. That's not a very wide margin of
safety.

I don't know where MX gets hid info, but transport category are
certificated to 3.3g max, 4.9g ultimate loading (standard category).

Orval Fairbairn writes:

I don't know where MX gets hid info, but transport category are
certificated to 3.3g max, 4.9g ultimate loading (standard category).

I had the maneuvering limits in mind. With flaps retracted, for the
737, the positive limit is 2.5 Gs.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

On 2 Jan 2007 05:56:31 -0800, "Jay Honeck" wrote:

I give up: What's a PIO?

Pilot Induced Oscillation. It's usually something that happens during
the landing flare, but can happen on a short-coupled aircraft in any
phase of flight. I wasn't aware that a Bonanza was in that category,
but apparently it is.

It's more of a short coupled pilot that airplane.:-))
A lot of pilots get used to responses of a Cherokee or 172 and for
some reason lean to rely on the VSI to stay level. That doesn't work
in the Bo which is much quicker in response. Where as if they see the
VSI showing a climb in the Cherokee and correct the Bo is quick enough
they can end up 180 degrees out of phase which makes for an
interesting ride. I usually start out by saying, "Remember, the VSI
is a *trend* instrument".

Isn't it bad for your aircraft to put it through 2 G stresses?

The Deb is utility category when loaded properly.
2Gs. Loop entry in the G-III is or can be around 5.:-)) Or a little
more if you want to do two with one on top of the other. Of course
entry speed is a bit higher at 350 MPH.

BTW one of the things I enjoyed out of 16R was seeing an old Ford Tri
motor (think it was a Ford) doing a "low altitude" loop


Planes are built to handle it.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com