GNS 430W vs GNS 480

Robert M. Gary wrote:

Sam Spade wrote:

Robert M. Gary wrote:




I've done instructing in the G1000 (430 basically) and found that the
most difficult (at least VFR) thing for pilots to learn is how to
change pages and manipulate the cursor to enter data. However, the 480
is certainly a more capable unit but more difficult in that regard.


I can't image a 480 being more capable than a G-1000 with WAAS.


Well, our G1000 C-182 doesn't have WAAS yet, but I don't expect that
holds will be added during that upgrade. The G1000 works like the 430.
When it comes to holds you go into suspend and you have to drive it
around the hold. The only difference between the G1000 and 430 with
regard to holds/procedure turns is that the G1000 automatically
resequences when inbound vs. the 430 that you have to press the
OBS/SUSPEND button to start sequencing again.

-Robert


I can only speak to a 530. In a hold in lieu of PT, it automatically
sequences after one circuit, no SUSPEND. When you go into a missed
approach hold it does go into SUSPEND and remains there "forever" until
you decide to leave the hold.

The positive course guidance in a 400/500W is dependent upon having a
roll steering autopilot. I doubt your 182 has a roll steering
autopilot. But, even then, once you have the W upgrade the magenta
flight track will be spot on for a charted hold or procedure turn and
will account for your groundspeed.

Sam Spade wrote:
Robert M. Gary wrote:
I can only speak to a 530. In a hold in lieu of PT, it automatically
sequences after one circuit, no SUSPEND. When you go into a missed
approach hold it does go into SUSPEND and remains there "forever" until
you decide to leave the hold.

Are we speaking of the same thing? In the 480 you tell it to hold, give
it the turn direction, leg length etc and it flys the hold. I've not
seen that in any other GPS product.

The positive course guidance in a 400/500W is dependent upon having a
roll steering autopilot. I doubt your 182 has a roll steering
autopilot.

Yes, the 182T does. Its not even 1 year old yet. It has a nice KAP140
autopilot. Totally hands off. Flys a full ILS down to minimums w/o
touching it. The only thing it doesn't do is fly the hold.

-Robert

Robert M. Gary wrote:

Sam Spade wrote:

Robert M. Gary wrote:
I can only speak to a 530. In a hold in lieu of PT, it automatically
sequences after one circuit, no SUSPEND. When you go into a missed
approach hold it does go into SUSPEND and remains there "forever" until
you decide to leave the hold.


Are we speaking of the same thing? In the 480 you tell it to hold, give
it the turn direction, leg length etc and it flys the hold. I've not
seen that in any other GPS product.

No, I think you are speaking of holds not in the database. Sounds like
the 480 does a nice job of that. I am speaking of charted approach
chart holds.


The positive course guidance in a 400/500W is dependent upon having a
roll steering autopilot. I doubt your 182 has a roll steering
autopilot.


Yes, the 182T does. Its not even 1 year old yet. It has a nice KAP140
autopilot. Totally hands off. Flys a full ILS down to minimums w/o
touching it. The only thing it doesn't do is fly the hold.


It will most likely fly the hold with a W mod.

Sam Spade wrote:
Robert M. Gary wrote:

Are we speaking of the same thing? In the 480 you tell it to hold, give
it the turn direction, leg length etc and it flys the hold. I've not
seen that in any other GPS product.

No, I think you are speaking of holds not in the database. Sounds like
the 480 does a nice job of that. I am speaking of charted approach
chart holds.

Did this change in the 430 with WAAS? From my teaching in the 430 and
G1000 when you cross the holding fix it just goes into suspend mode
(with a suggested entry procedure). The 480 actually figures the entry
procedure and flys it, you never touch the yoke. Does the 430 WAAS unit
fly the entry procedure?

-Robert

"Robert M. Gary" wrote:

Does the 430 WAAS unit fly the entry procedure?

If the sim for the GNS430W is to be believed, yes it will, assuming of
course it is coupled with an appropriate AP.

--
Peter

Peter R. wrote:

"Robert M. Gary" wrote:


Does the 430 WAAS unit fly the entry procedure?


If the sim for the GNS430W is to be believed, yes it will, assuming of
course it is coupled with an appropriate AP.


With a roll steering autopilot it will.

Sam Spade wrote:
Peter R. wrote:

"Robert M. Gary" wrote:


Does the 430 WAAS unit fly the entry procedure?


If the sim for the GNS430W is to be believed, yes it will, assuming of
course it is coupled with an appropriate AP.


With a roll steering autopilot it will.

That's a motivation to upgrade the G1000 to WAAS. However, I just read
somewhere that the rumor is that the WAAS G1000 systems will not drive
VNAV to the KAP140. So you won't be able to fly fully coupled VNAV
approachs with the KAP140 (even though you can fly a fully coupled ILS
with it). Not sure what the techical limitation is but Garmin's
solution is to upgrade to their Garmin autopilot (which I don't believe
is certified for many applications yet). However, that will fix the
issue of having to set the barometer 3 times (G1000, KAP140, standby
alttitude) since the Garmin autopilot will take the baro setting from
the G1000 directly.


-Robert

Does the 430 WAAS unit fly the entry procedure?

If the sim for the GNS430W is to be believed, yes it will, assuming of
course it is coupled with an appropriate AP.

--
Peter


I am really interested to hear how many of us have actually been asked to
fly a Holding pattern by ATC in the recent past ?

Roy

Roy N5804F wrote:

I am really interested to hear how many of us have actually been asked to
fly a Holding pattern by ATC in the recent past ?

It is more common than you think, assuming you routinely fly IFR to
uncontrolled airports (at least in the Northeast US). While certainly not
a lot, I have been asked twice over the year I was commuting to Dunkirk,
NY, to momentarily hold due to another IFR aircraft ahead of me flying the
approach.

Additionally, on frequency I have heard holding instructions go out to
every aircraft (air carriers and GA alike) approaching the big three NY
airports when a line of t-storms was about to move through.

The point being that the more you fly IFR, the more likely you will
encounter a request to hold.

--
Peter

Roy N5804F wrote:



Does the 430 WAAS unit fly the entry procedure?

If the sim for the GNS430W is to be believed, yes it will, assuming of
course it is coupled with an appropriate AP.

--
Peter



I am really interested to hear how many of us have actually been asked to
fly a Holding pattern by ATC in the recent past ?

Roy



The holding pattern that the Garmin 400/500 have are flown a lot and
without ATC request. They are the course-reversal hold (known as "HIL"
or hold-in-lieu-of procedure turn) and the missed approach holding pattern.

These holds are far more prevelant today as RNAV procedures increase in
ron-radar areas.