Confusion about when it's my navigation, and when it's ATC

TxSrv wrote:
But I have trouble
believing the typical ATC would regularly spend off-hours directing
nonpilots in a make-believe IFR environment.

So do I.

I also have trouble believing very many real pilots would bother to
participate in that whole shebang.

B A R R Y writes:

I also have trouble believing very many real pilots would bother to
participate in that whole shebang.

Many real pilots play with MSFS all the time.

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TxSrv writes:

How do you actually know they are real controllers?

I know where they work.

But I have trouble believing the typical ATC would regularly
spend off-hours directing nonpilots in a make-believe IFR
environment.

Is it also hard for you to believe that an airline pilot would spend
his off-hours flying a small private plane?

If there were many real controllers doing this, you wouldn't
have so many misconceptions about IFR, the few rigid rules
which are not to be violated, and the essential task of the
controller.

Why don't you try it, and report back here?

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Mxsmanic wrote:
TxSrv writes:

For starters, the program doesn't really understand air
density. The program tries, but only in MSFS can one
maintain a semblance of controllability in a 172 at FL 250.

That would probably be a flaw in the specific model.

All planes, and various propulsion systems, react in the
same way to air density. The program itself could handle
this, needing only some specifics from the model file and
which it does supply for certain things. Whatever. Of the
zillion FS planes out there for download, point me toward a
normally-aspirated, piston aircraft, with certificated HP in
the model file, and which isn't a real hoot when slewed up
into the flight levels.

Plus, the mixture control does not react as it should at
even 7000.

What does it do wrong?

The red knobby thingy? Besides doing little but being an
on/off switch? I dunno. Regarding rarefied air, I read
somewhere on the net it's just the way carburetors work.

F--

TxSrv writes:

All planes, and various propulsion systems, react in the
same way to air density. The program itself could handle
this, needing only some specifics from the model file and
which it does supply for certain things. Whatever. Of the
zillion FS planes out there for download, point me toward a
normally-aspirated, piston aircraft, with certificated HP in
the model file, and which isn't a real hoot when slewed up
into the flight levels.

Since you cannot test the real aircraft that high, you have no way of
knowing whether the simulation is accurate or not.

The red knobby thingy? Besides doing little but being an
on/off switch?

It's considerably more than an on/off switch when I use it.

I dunno.

I agree.

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Mxsmanic wrote:
TxSrv writes:

All planes, and various propulsion systems, react in the
same way to air density. The program itself could handle
this, needing only some specifics from the model file and
which it does supply for certain things. Whatever. Of the
zillion FS planes out there for download, point me toward a
normally-aspirated, piston aircraft, with certificated HP in
the model file, and which isn't a real hoot when slewed up
into the flight levels.

Since you cannot test the real aircraft that high, you have no way of
knowing whether the simulation is accurate or not.


To all of you R.A.P., R.A.I. and R.A.S. regulars out there that take up for
this little twit please read the above and rethink your position. If you
still think he asks logical questions and makes only reasoned statements
please list you name below.

Mxsmanic wrote:

Since you cannot test the real aircraft that high, you have no
way of knowing whether the simulation is accurate or not.

Brilliant. How do we get there in the first place? What
limiters do you suppose in a normally-aspirated,
piston-engine A/C would prevent us? Barring extraordinary
ridge lift in winter-cold air, and maybe that would be
insufficient, how do we get to FL 300 like I've done in MSFS
in a 172? Possible only with slew. And what's that silly
MSFS phugoid thing all about in this rarefied air? It's
program code; not reality.

F--

Mxsmanic wrote:

Sam Spade writes:


I don't think you understand the aerodynamics of the real world. MSFS
has great scenery but the aircraft and the atmosphere modeling are
terribly wrong in MSFS.


It sounds like you don't fly much in MSFS.

Tell me _exactly_ what's wrong with the aircraft modeling.


Off the top of my head:

The King Air, on autopilot, will not maintain the set vertical speed if
the IAS drops below 120 knots or so. It will nose-dive and crash. Not
so with a real King Air.

Cross winds on autopilot are not handled correctly on an RNAV approach.

Strong winds aloft dramatically affect IAS in a holding pattern, which
is wrong beyond belief.

That is my short list.

Sam Spade writes:

The King Air, on autopilot, will not maintain the set vertical speed if
the IAS drops below 120 knots or so. It will nose-dive and crash. Not
so with a real King Air.

Does the King Air allow you to set a vertical speed? What happens on
the real aircraft?

Cross winds on autopilot are not handled correctly on an RNAV approach.

Which autopilot? What does it do incorrectly?

Strong winds aloft dramatically affect IAS in a holding pattern, which
is wrong beyond belief.

I'll have to look.

That is my short list.

I don't recall ever flying the King Air, but I'll try to remember to
look at the other things the next time the opportunity arises.

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Mxsmanic wrote:

What happens on the real aircraft?

They crash. Real airplanes easily crash, despite what even
a King Air pilot I know well tells me. Not exactly a
pussycat, but a solid, predictable machine. Heck, he's just
a "blowhard," to use your word. Please also ignore any
alleged pilot here who tells you anything. The Microsoft
Games Development Team are the real gurus; I though we
stipulated that hundreds of posts ago.

F--