Absolute lowest altitude you can fly (legally)

Blanche wrote in
:

Those of us in the US read them, all of them, cover to cover.
Repeatedly. And get tested on them on a recurring, regular basis. You
want to ask questions? Fine, but having access to the FARs - which you
do -- and reading them -- which you refuse to do -- are the the ground
rules for being here.

Unfortunately, as long as some keep feeding this troll, he won't have a
need to read the FAR's, AIMS or any other reference that's been provided to
him.

Don't like the rules of the game? Go play another one, somewhere
else, with someone else. Stop wasting bandwidth.

Manowar, do I agree with this, but some folks really disagree with me when
I say they are wasting their time with this dude. But of course, I am
being told that I am destroying my "reputation" (whatever that reputation
that I so care little about) trying to bring some sanity back to this
group.

Blanche, been singing your tune for about 3 months now..... Only way to
get rid of him is to not answer his questions.

Allen

On Thu, 04 Jan 2007 22:59:28 GMT, A Lieberma
wrote:


Blanche, been singing your tune for about 3 months now..... Only way to
get rid of him is to not answer his questions.

Allen

Briefly...

Is there a particular reason why r.a.s and r.a.p are not moderated?

(The long version...)

It is surprising that headers appearing least deserving of attention
will load with so many replies. Maybe we collect our share of bowel
restrants during the day, then look to release them in some convenient
out-house; which is our own. (Or yours, as the case may be. I am not
a pilot, yet.)

The option to keep the toilet lid closed is available to those having
more useful gifts to, and expectations from, their neighbors. But
there's a noisy party next door, in another header; where errors and
other personal matters may be thought easily forgotten, and those of
others cussed out angrily. That flatulent noise cannot be completely
avoided throughout. The distraction is substantial.

Rec.aviation.student/piloting are news groups intended for a
disciplined environment. (So are others in the usenet; or were.)
Pilots enter therein without complaint, and with relief, since
discipline actually does allow for entertainment, (and something even
a little deeper). And their mixing in appropriate measures, with the
effort to make that discernment, can be a filling experience.

Then there are the party 'raiders'. (Couldn't recall the usual word,
and the dictionary didn't help; except for 'party poopers'.) Their
want (for all we can figure), is to destroy an ordered pleasure, its
success. Why? Envy of 'big-shots' (who occasionally are immature
themselves), or to put people in their place, because no one should,
in their fantasy, be better than ony one else -- for reasons of theft,
or just plain destruction, or just plain ego.

It is their power-play where they can win in unprotected places, where
complaints are futile and dissed as whining. Then it is an
unfortunate union, by rape, in pain. By a few acting as if on behalf
of the whole, their half of the whole; as if owed brotherhood, or a
command status. All in the name of 'freedom'.

No civilized effort towards some goal, as glory, can exist without
protection at some level (as opposed to unguarded 'freedom').
Otherwise, eventually it will be defiled; destroyed.

Because of the state of the usenet, and the universal curiosity about
aviation, I can't see how useful discussions can be had without
locking out disturbances. So, does anyone have time to moderate these
groups? Or would that make them too restrained? How about lightly
moderated, where specific abusers could be blocked & posts deleted. Or
is that somehow asking for trouble? A forum on the internet, anyone?
It isn't my business to suggest it, but will anyway.

Some regulars prefer tighter control than others. And the disagreement
itself becomes a distraction. There are always distractions, but
what's going on now is ridiculous.
--
Mike

Recently, Michael Rhodes posted:

Some regulars prefer tighter control than others. And the disagreement
itself becomes a distraction. There are always distractions, but
what's going on now is ridiculous.

Not to worry, this, too, will pass.

Neil

"Neil Gould" wrote in news:astnh.28843$hI.14462
@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net:

Recently, Michael Rhodes posted:

Some regulars prefer tighter control than others. And the disagreement
itself becomes a distraction. There are always distractions, but
what's going on now is ridiculous.

Not to worry, this, too, will pass.

Only when folks stop responding to the troll, which isn't soon enough.

Allen

Michael Rhodes wrote:
Is there a particular reason why r.a.s and r.a.p are not moderated?

Yes. It's so people (like you) can post off-topic rants (like this
one) about people they don't like rather than discussing aviation
topics.

I suggest you read the charter for r.a.s and r.a.p. You might discover
some interesting things. In brief, you would discover that the posts
by Mxsmanic are generally within the scope of the charter (certainly
all the ones I have seen from him starting new threads have been) and
that most of the responses are not.

Moderation exists not to protect groups from occasional individual
trolls but to keep them from being overwhelmed by volume from spammers
(many of the sex groups have had to do this) and flamers (many of the
groups discussing politically charged issues like abortion and firearms
have had to do this). The closest thing we ever really had to a troll
like that was Skylune, and he was one man. Not worth stifling the
discussion for one man.

Mxsmanic is not a troll. He asks relevant questions. When he gets an
answer that doesn't make sense to him (more often than not because it
is, at least in my opinion as a pilot/instuctor/mechanic/aircraft
owner, not a very correct or clear answer) he argues with it. When
people are abusive to him, he is abusive in return - but giving just a
little less than he gets. I've seen him post stuff that was out of
scope for the charter, but only in reply to posts that were
signifciantly more out of scope.

Moderation would not stop his threads. It would make them more
readable - by stopping most of the comments that are nasty rather than
responsive. It's almost enough to make me think this is a good idea.

Michael

"Michael" wrote in
oups.com:

Mxsmanic is not a troll.

ONLY IN YOUR OPINION WHICH IS CLEARLY THE MINORITY.

Allen

"Michael" wrote : Mxsmanic is not a troll.
)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
"A Lieberma" wrote: ONLY IN YOUR OPINION WHICH IS CLEARLY THE MINORITY.
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
Allen, just kick Michael, and anyone else who so strongly sides with Mx,
right into the kill file with MX. They deserve each other.

At any rate, you won't have your time killed reading their garbage, or time
killed skipping over it. They simply dissappear. That is a "good thing,"
in my book.

Also, delete any cross posting; post only to the piloting group. I think a
lot of kooks are coming over here from the sim group.

Hang in there everyone; perhaps the tide is turning.
--
Jim in NC

On 1/5/2007 10:40:30 PM, "Morgans" wrote:

Also, delete any cross posting; post only to the piloting group. I think a
lot of kooks are coming over here from the sim group.

Careful there, Jim. It's one thing to fight the good fight against this one
individual. However, it's a completely different and somewhat classless act
to label those from the sim group as "kooks."

I have interacted with many in both groups and I can say with certainty that
those in the sim group are a very friendly, smart, and respectful bunch. In
fact, you obviously are not aware that many of those in the sim group have
been regulars in this group for years, if you can believe it.

--
Peter

The quickest and easiest answer is:

You learn to ignore it or go insane.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On Sat, 06 Jan 2007 03:22:42 -0500, Roger
wrote:

The quickest and easiest answer is:

You learn to ignore it or go insane.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

That bad, huh? I'll retract my question/suggestion. It was intended
as a question. Seemed logical.

It is better for some to ignore it, but it won't always be ignored,
nor should it. Moderation organizes the effort into some sort of
authority. Independent (if not libertarian), aviators reflexively
kick back at any authoritarian figure, who tend to 'prove' themselves
by taking more authority.

But if I'm going to spend so much time and money in the air, then you
can be sure I want ordered skies, and to be with those accustomed to
discipline, and not 'free flight'. And think its better to argue with
authority than the uncivilized; though neither argue well. But it's
better to take chances with the former than the latter -- unless the
former is the one organizing the current disturbance. It's
stubbornness suggests as much.
--
Mike