Confusion about when it's my navigation, and when it's ATC

Sam Spade writes:

That just isn't so. Jet aircraft are required to remain on, or above,
the ILS G/S whether on an ILS approach or on a visual approach.

But doesn't one normally fly below the glide path in order to
intercept it?

At the company I worked for, failure to tune and identify the ILS for a visual
approach to an ILS runway was a check-ride bust.

So it's a company policy, but not a FAR. However, such a policy does
not surprise me. Why deprive oneself of the information from the ILS
just because it is a visual approach?

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Mxsmanic wrote:
Sam Spade writes:

That just isn't so. Jet aircraft are required to remain on, or above,
the ILS G/S whether on an ILS approach or on a visual approach.

But doesn't one normally fly below the glide path in order to
intercept it?

Depends. There are times when you pick up the glideslope at or
a bit above the appropriate altitude before it is totally intercepted.
Case in point: ILS 25L and 24R at LAX, ILS 25L at Vegas.

At the company I worked for, failure to tune and identify the ILS for a visual
approach to an ILS runway was a check-ride bust.

So it's a company policy, but not a FAR. However, such a policy does
not surprise me. Why deprive oneself of the information from the ILS
just because it is a visual approach?

You really don't get it.

No-one is depriving anyone from the readouts an ILS approach
has. Because you're on a visual approach however, it is the pilot's
responsibility for separation, not ATC's. ATC can tell you to join the
runway localizer and track it inbound, but still to expect a visual
approach.

Just because an airport has a runway with an instrument
approach does not always mean you will use that runway. Like I said
before.. I'd hate to see how you'd get into some place like LAS when
the 19s and 7s are in use, or PSP when the 13s are in use.

Let me ask this.. Granted, you will have more issues to deal
with when/if it happens, but what would you do if you were on approach
to an airport, and you lost your entire panel? According to your very
post above, you'd be deprived of your precious ILS.. I hope you know
how to land a plane without anything.

BL.
- --
Brad Littlejohn | Email:
Unix Systems Administrator, |
Web + NewsMaster, BOFH.. Smeghead! | http://www.wizard.com/~tyketto
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A Guy Called Tyketto writes:

Depends. There are times when you pick up the glideslope at or
a bit above the appropriate altitude before it is totally intercepted.
Case in point: ILS 25L and 24R at LAX, ILS 25L at Vegas.

It must be awkward, since the glide slope constantly descends, and
you'd have to chase it downward.

I also seem to recall reading that some autopilot systems will only
capture correctly from beneath. They expect the glide path to descend
towards them. I haven't tested this in simulation, and of course
there's no guarantee that the simulation would be accurate on such a
small detail, but I'll have to try it sometime.

ATC can tell you to join the
runway localizer and track it inbound, but still to expect a visual
approach.

I haven't heard that. I'll have to listen for it.

Just because an airport has a runway with an instrument
approach does not always mean you will use that runway. Like I said
before.. I'd hate to see how you'd get into some place like LAS when
the 19s and 7s are in use, or PSP when the 13s are in use.

It hasn't happened to me thus far.

Let me ask this.. Granted, you will have more issues to deal
with when/if it happens, but what would you do if you were on approach
to an airport, and you lost your entire panel? According to your very
post above, you'd be deprived of your precious ILS.. I hope you know
how to land a plane without anything.

In VMC, I'd continue visually. In IMC, I'd have to find a place where
I could land visually. It depends on exactly which instruments I've
lost. If I have nothing at all and I'm in IMC, the outlook is grim.
In VMC, it would be challenging but doable.

--
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Mxsmanic wrote:

Sam Spade writes:


That just isn't so. Jet aircraft are required to remain on, or above,
the ILS G/S whether on an ILS approach or on a visual approach.


But doesn't one normally fly below the glide path in order to
intercept it?


At the company I worked for, failure to tune and identify the ILS for a visual
approach to an ILS runway was a check-ride bust.


So it's a company policy, but not a FAR. However, such a policy does
not surprise me. Why deprive oneself of the information from the ILS
just because it is a visual approach?

The FAR requires remaining on or above the glideslope. It is very
difficult to comply with the regulation without tuning and identifying
the ILS. It probably is company policy at most, if not all, airlines.

Company policies are established to assure compliance with regulations
that might otherwise be overlooked.

So, the say it is a company policy for other than FAR compliance would
be quite mistaken.

Further, I suspect FAA operations inspectors get all over any airline
that does not have this policy.