Confusion about when it's my navigation, and when it's ATC

Mxsmanic wrote:

Sam Spade writes:


Your stupidity is showing again.


No, I looked and didn't find it, so I'm asking you to point it out.
It isn't written, is it?

Man, why do you continue to be so arrogant when you don't understand how
to read FARs?

Look for the little ****---- that I have placed a couple of times as
highlighting.

§ 91.129 Operations in Class D airspace.
(a) General. Unless otherwise authorized or required by the ATC facility
having jurisdiction over the Class D airspace area, each person
operating an aircraft in Class D airspace must comply with the
applicable provisions of this section. In addition, each person must
comply with §§ 91.126 and 91.127. For the purpose of this section, the
primary airport is the airport for which the Class D airspace area is
designated. A satellite airport is any other airport within the Class D
airspace area.
(b) Deviations. An operator may deviate from any provision of this
section under the provisions of an ATC authorization issued by the ATC
facility having jurisdiction over the airspace concerned. ATC may
authorize a deviation on a continuing basis or for an individual flight,
as appropriate.
(c) Communications. Each person operating an aircraft in Class D
airspace must meet the following two-way radio communications requirements:
(1) Arrival or through flight. Each person must establish two-way radio
communications with the ATC facility (including foreign ATC in the case
of foreign airspace designated in the United States) providing air
traffic services prior to entering that airspace and thereafter maintain
those communications while within that airspace.
(2) Departing flight. Each person -
(i) From the primary airport or satellite airport with an operating
control tower must establish and maintain two-way radio communications
with the control tower, and thereafter as instructed by ATC while
operating in the Class D airspace area; or
(ii) From a satellite airport without an operating control tower, must
establish and maintain two-way radio communications with the ATC
facility having jurisdiction over the Class D airspace area as soon as
practicable after departing.
(d) Communications failure. Each person who operates an aircraft in a
Class D airspace area must maintain two-way radio communications with
the ATC facility having jurisdiction over that area.
(1) If the aircraft radio fails in flight under IFR, the pilot must
comply with 91.185 of the part.
(2) If the aircraft radio fails in flight under VFR, the pilot in
command may operate that aircraft and land if -
(i) Weather conditions are at or above basic VFR weather minimums;
(ii) Visual contact with the tower is maintained; and
(iii) A clearance to land is received.
(3) {Does not exist - Ed.}
(e) Minimum Altitudes. When operating to an airport in Class D airspace,
each pilot of -
(1) A large or turbine-powered airplane shall, unless otherwise required
by the applicable distance from cloud criteria, enter the traffic
pattern at an altitude of at least 1,500 feet above the elevation of the
airport and maintain at least 1,500 feet until further descent is
required for a safe landing;
(2) A large or turbine-powered airplane approaching to land on a runway
served by an instrument landing system (ILS), if the airplane is ILS
equipped, shall fly that airplane at an altitude at or above the glide
slope between the outer marker (or point of interception of glide slope,
if compliance with the applicable distance from clouds criteria requires
interception closer in) and the middle marker; and
(3) An airplane approaching to land on a runway served by a visual
approach slope indicator shall maintain an altitude at or above the
glide slope until a lower altitude is necessary for a safe landing.

Paragraphs (e)(2) and (e)(3) of this section do not prohibit normal
bracketing maneuvers above or below the glide slope that are conducted
for the purpose of remaining on the glide slope.

(f) Approaches. Except when conducting a circling approach under Part 97
of this chapter or unless otherwise required by ATC, each pilot must -
(1) Circle the airport to the left, if operating an airplane; or
(2) Avoid the flow of fixed-wing aircraft, if operating a helicopter.
(g) Departures. No person may operate an aircraft departing from an
airport except in compliance with the following:
(1) Each pilot must comply with any departure procedures established for
that airport by the FAA.
(2) Unless otherwise required by the prescribed departure procedure for
that airport or the applicable distance from clouds criteria, each pilot
of a turbine-powered airplane and each pilot of a large airplane must
climb to an altitude of 1,500 feet above the surface as rapidly as
practicable.
(h) Noise abatement. Where a formal runway use program has been
established by the FAA, each pilot of a large or turbine-powered
airplane assigned a noise abatement runway by ATC must use that runway.
However, consistent with the final authority of the pilot in command
concerning the safe operation of the aircraft as prescribed in §
91.3(a), ATC may assign a different runway if requested by the pilot in
the interest of safety.
(i) Takeoff, landing, taxi clearance. No person may, at any airport with
an operating control tower, operate an aircraft on a runway or taxiway,
or take off or land an aircraft, unless an appropriate clearance is
received from ATC. A clearance to "taxi to" the takeoff runway assigned
to the aircraft is not a clearance to cross that assigned takeoff
runway, or to taxi on that runway at any point but is a clearance to
cross other runways that intersect the taxi route to that assigned
takeoff runway. A clearance to "taxi to" any point other than an
assigned takeoff runway is clearance to cross all runways that intersect
the taxi route to that point.


§ 91.130 Operations in Class C airspace.
(a) General. Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, each aircraft operation
in Class C airspace must be conducted in compliance with this section
****----and § 91.129.____**** For the purpose of this section, the
primary airport is the airport for which the Class C airspace area is
designated. A satellite airport is any other airport within the Class C
airspace area.
(b) Traffic patterns. No person may take off or land an aircraft at a
satellite airport within a Class C airspace area except in compliance
with FAA arrival and departure traffic patterns.
(c) Communications. Each person operating an aircraft in Class C
airspace must meet the following two-way radio communications requirements:
(1) Arrival or through flight. Each person must establish two-way radio
communications with the ATC facility (including foreign ATC in the case
of foreign airspace designated in the United States) providing air
traffic services prior to entering that airspace and thereafter maintain
those communications while within that airspace.
(2) Departing flight. Each person -
(i) From the primary airport or satellite airport with an operating
control tower must establish and maintain two-way radio communications
with the control tower, and thereafter as instructed by ATC while
operating in the Class C airspace area; or
(ii) From a satellite airport without an operating control tower, must
establish and maintain two-way radio communications with the ATC
facility having jurisdiction over the Class C airspace area as soon as
practicable after departing.
(d) Equipment requirements. Unless otherwise authorized by the ATC
having jurisdiction over the Class C airspace area, no person may
operate an aircraft within a Class C airspace area designated for an
airport unless that aircraft is equipped with the applicable equipment
specified in § 91.215.
(e) Deviations. An operator may deviate from any provision of this
section under the provisions of an ATC authorization issued by the ATC
facility having jurisdiction over the airspace concerned. ATC may
authorize a deviation on a continuing basis or for an individual flight,
as appropriate.


§ 91.131 Operations in Class B airspace.
(a) Operating rules. No person may operate an aircraft within a Class B
airspace area ****-----except in compliance with § 91.129 and the
following rules:----****
(1) The operator must receive an ATC clearance from the ATC facility
having jurisdiction for that area before operating an aircraft in that area.
(2) Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, each person operating a large
turbine engine-powered airplane to or from a primary airport for which a
Class B airspace area is designated must operate at or above the
designated floors of the Class B airspace area while within the lateral
limits of that area.
(3) Any person conducting pilot training operations at an airport within
a Class B airspace area must comply with any procedures established by
ATC for such operations in that area.
(b) Pilot requirements.
(1) No person may take off or land a civil aircraft at an airport within
a Class B airspace area or operate a civil aircraft within a Class B
airspace area unless -
(i) The pilot in command holds at least a private pilot certificate;
(ii) The pilot in command holds a recreational pilot certificate and has
met--
(A) The requirements of § 61.101(d) of this chapter; or
(B) The requirements for a student pilot seeking a recreational pilot
certificate in § 61.94 of this chapter;
(iii) The pilot in command holds a sport pilot certificate and has met --
(A) The requirements of § 61.325 of this chapter; or
(B) The requirements for a student pilot seeking a recreational pilot
certificate in § 61.94 of this chapter; or
(iv) The aircraft is operated by a student pilot who has met the
requirements of § 61.94 or § 61.95 of this chapter, as applicable.
(2) Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraphs (b)(1)(ii), (b)(1)(iii)
and (b)(1)(iv) of this section, no person may take off or land a civil
aircraft at those airports listed in section 4 of appendix D to this
part unless the pilot in command holds at least a private pilot certificate.
(c) Communications and navigation equipment requirements. Unless
otherwise authorized by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft within a
Class B airspace area unless that aircraft is equipped with -
(1) For IFR operation. An operable VOR or TACAN receiver; and
(2) For all operations. An operable two-way radio capable of
communications with ATC on appropriate frequencies for that Class B
airspace area.
(d) Transponder requirements. No person may operate an aircraft in a
Class B airspace area unless the aircraft is equipped with the
applicable operating transponder and automatic altitude reporting
equipment specified in paragraph (a) of § 91.215, except as provided in
paragraph (d) of that section.

Sam Spade writes:

Man, why do you continue to be so arrogant when you don't understand how
to read FARs?

Why don't you just quote the relevant text from the beginning?

Look for the little ****---- that I have placed a couple of times as
highlighting.

Found it, thanks. I note, however, that some parts of 91.129
specifically mention Class D, while others do not. The implication of
this is that only the parts that do not mention Class D explicitly
will apply in other airspaces. Part (e):

(e) Minimum Altitudes. When operating to an airport in Class D airspace,
each pilot of ...

explicitly mentions Class D airspace, and thus would not appear to
apply to other airspaces.

How do you know that this part applies to all airspaces? The
distinction between parts mentioning Class D and those not mentioning
it appears to be deliberate.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Mxsmanic wrote:
Sam Spade writes:


Man, why do you continue to be so arrogant when you don't understand how
to read FARs?


Why don't you just quote the relevant text from the beginning?

Because I chose not to.




Found it, thanks. I note, however, that some parts of 91.129
specifically mention Class D, while others do not. The implication of
this is that only the parts that do not mention Class D explicitly
will apply in other airspaces. Part (e):


(e) Minimum Altitudes. When operating to an airport in Class D airspace,
each pilot of ...


explicitly mentions Class D airspace, and thus would not appear to
apply to other airspaces.

How do you know that this part applies to all airspaces? The
distinction between parts mentioning Class D and those not mentioning
it appears to be deliberate.


The provisions of 91.129 apply to Class B and C airspace unless there is
something in the Class B or C rules that *clearly* countermands some
part of 91.129

In the case of Class C ATC can waive appropriate requirements of 91.129;
in Class B it doesn't say that.

With the issue of remaining on, or above the ILS G/S in VFR, ATC would
never waive that.

Sam Spade writes:

Because I chose not to.

And I chose to regard your assertion with suspicion in consequence.

The provisions of 91.129 apply to Class B and C airspace unless there is
something in the Class B or C rules that *clearly* countermands some
part of 91.129

According to whom?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Mxsmanic wrote:

Sam Spade writes:


Because I chose not to.


And I chose to regard your assertion with suspicion in consequence.


The provisions of 91.129 apply to Class B and C airspace unless there is
something in the Class B or C rules that *clearly* countermands some
part of 91.129


According to whom?

According to the little man inside your head that gives you those awful
headaches.