Can Aircraft Be Far Behind?

On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 14:38:16 GMT, Larry Dighera
wrote:

http://www.teslamotors.com/

I recall an article last year that talked about a light sport aircraft
that had been fitted with an electric motor of ~100hp and then powered
by a battery... But do not remember the important details, like
whether it had flown, and if so - the range.

I did a quick Google search but am not having luck finding it (my
search parameters only seem to find RC/Electric planes).

Anyone else remember the article?

-Nathan

On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 18:51:37 GMT, "Neil Gould"
wrote in
:


While the Altair battery offers some theoretical advantages over the Tesla
power pack, neither is a complete solution. The Altair battery's basic
configuration is 13v. @ 88 Ah.
http://www.altairnano.com/markets_amps.html

That isn't a very long drive in an electric-only vehicle.

So add more cells.

However, in a
hybrid there are potential advantages because it can be charged rapidly.

Charge time for the Altair batteries is only a few minutes as I
recall.

Recently, Larry Dighera posted:

On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 18:20:07 GMT, "Neil Gould"
wrote in
:

If the information suggested by James Robinson is accurate,

Assuming 746 watts / horsepower, and the Tesla Motor's ~56 kWh
capacity, Robinson's 75 Hp for one hour assertion seems accurate.

the vehicle will not achieve its stated performance or endurance
figures.

I don't know specifically to which figures you are referring, but the
Tesla roadster will probably easily meet it's acceleration figure.

For one thing, a 75 hp/hr. battery won't deliver 200 kW for very
long.

Perhaps the Tesla roadster doesn't need to develop 75 Hp during it's
entire run time, and there's the issue of regenerative braking,

I imagine that the average power consumption can exceed 75 hp/hr in
typical city driving, and unless the Altair battery is used, regenerative
braking won't provide much of a recovery.

but
these things are not germane to electrically powered aircraft which
typically must produce 75% rated Hp continuously in cruise flight.

True. I think there may be some solutions in the future, but I'm skeptical
that the Tesla motor is that solution.

Unlike automobiles, aircraft not only require motive power to propel
them forward, but they are not afforded the luxury of a roadway to
support their weight, and I would presume aircraft drag is
considerably more than an automobile.

I think aerodynamic drag is greater in an automobile than an airplane, but
much more of the auto motor's energy can be used for overcoming that drag
since it doesn't have to provide the energy for lift.

Neil

Larry Dighera wrote:

Electrically powered vehicles are the only hope to reduce the transfer
of wealth from the western world to the middle east,

Electric cars will never eliminate our dependence on oil from the middle
east. That is a bold statement and I could be wrong but I believe the
only way to eliminate our dependence on foreign oil, is to use every
possible alternative to power cars and trucks, including bio diesel,
methanol (from something other than corn), natural gas, maybe hydrogen,
and to what I believe will be a limited extent battery power. At the
same time we should stop using fuels to generate electricity that work
well in vehicles so as to save it for vehicles and use nuclear, coal
(which can be made clean with the byproduct useful for making concrete
stronger), hydro-electric, wind and solar (and I don't mean PV cells).

What I can't understand is why solar heat for your house isn't being
pushed more. Unlike solar electric cells, solar heat can easily and
quickly pay for it's self. In many parts of the country it can provide
over 90% of your heating needs. The only disadvantage I can see, is for
it to be most cost effective, you need to have it built into the house
from the start. It's hard to add it to existing homes and have it be
efficient unless certain things just happen to be right. That may be
part of why it isn't talked about more.


--
Chris W
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"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
http://www.teslamotors.com/

There is already a very functional self launching sailplane, with
retractable motor, in production in Europe, as I recall. I remember it from
one of the groups several months back, but can't for the life of me remember
the name, and don't have time to search for it, right now. I was impressed.
--
Jim in NC

"Larry Dighera" wrote

Electrically powered vehicles are the only hope to reduce the transfer
of wealth from the western world to the middle east, and reduce global
warming. If the US doesn't find some breakthrough technology soon,
we'll all be speaking Farsi before long. :-(

How do you figure that?

What do you suppose generates the majority of the electricity to recharge
that car? Fossil fuels. Until we start building nuke plants, or find a
breakthrough in solar power generation, we will be stuck with the oil and
gas noose around our necks.
--
Jim in NC

Larry Dighera wrote:
http://www.teslamotors.com/

The real issue is probably the lack of a big enough market for such
innovations in the GA sector. Aviation in general is a very hard
business to make money in and even giants like Boeing and Airbus seem
to be never too far from slippery ground.

"Neil Gould" wrote in message
t...
Recently, Larry Dighera posted:

On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 10:19:00 -0600, James Robinson
wrote in :

Larry Dighera wrote:

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote:

Larry Dighera wrote:

http://www.teslamotors.com/

Well they say the motor weighs 70 pounds and produces 248 HP but I
can't find anything about the weight of the batteries.

Total weight is indicated as ~2,400 lbs (including air
conditioning). Given its 1:10 power to weight ratio, I'd say, if it
had wings instead of the beefy structure it requires to meet road
safety standards, it would fly. It wouldn't require any fuel.
Recharges fully in 3.5 hours.

The batteries weigh 900 lb., and put out 75 HP for an hour.

I didn't see those numbers on the Tesla Motors web site. Have you got
a source for that information? There is a chart here, but it is more
about marketing than engineering:
http://www.teslamotors.com/performance/performance.php

Your numbers seem to conflict to some degree with these:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Roadster#Battery
Battery:
6,831 Lithium ion battery cells
About 450 kg
Full-charge time of three and a half hours
~56 kWh capacity

I don't have my hp W tables handy... if you do, how does Robinson's info
conflict, given that the weight is about right as "about 450 kg" ~= 990
lbs.


56kW is 73hp. I think the 75 hp for an hour is very close. Not enough for
an airplane in my opinion.

Danny Deger

snip

"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"Larry Dighera" wrote

Electrically powered vehicles are the only hope to reduce the transfer
of wealth from the western world to the middle east, and reduce global
warming. If the US doesn't find some breakthrough technology soon,
we'll all be speaking Farsi before long. :-(

How do you figure that?

What do you suppose generates the majority of the electricity to recharge
that car? Fossil fuels. Until we start building nuke plants, or find a
breakthrough in solar power generation, we will be stuck with the oil and
gas noose around our necks.
--

Don't forget coal.

Danny Deger

On Tue, 9 Jan 2007 18:14:15 -0500, "Morgans"
wrote in :


"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
.. .
http://www.teslamotors.com/

There is already a very functional self launching sailplane, with
retractable motor, in production in Europe, as I recall. I remember it from
one of the groups several months back, but can't for the life of me remember
the name, and don't have time to search for it, right now. I was impressed.

Me too. The Antares was a long time in development, but it's now
certified:
http://www.lange-flugzeugbau.de/htm/...tares_20E.html