Israel pays the price for buying only Boeing (and not Airbus)

(Quant) wrote in message . com...
wrote in message . ..
On 1 Jul 2003 15:34:02 -0700, (Kevin Brooks)
wrote:

wrote in message . ..
On 30 Jun 2003 18:31:07 -0700, (Kevin Brooks)
wrote:

(Quant) wrote in message . com...
This post is specially for brooks.

Hebrew:
http://www.globes.co.il/serve/globes...asp?did=701548


Israel Aircraft Industries was excluded from the Airbus 380 project
because of a political decision of the goverment of Israel to buy only
Boeing planes by El Al.

What brand of cheese do you prefer to go with that whine? Hey, turn
down the billions in US dollars your nation receives each year from
the US taxpayers, then you can come back and whine about losing out on
this contract as much as you want

So you acknowledge that "aid" to Israel is nothing but a quid pro quo.

LOL! Not hardly. You need to retake that course in logic--the salient
points apparently did not stick with you. I am merely pointing out
that whining about your economic/military dependency upon the US and
any negative impacts can easily be rendered moot by declaring you
won't accept further US aid (like *that* will ever happen).


American defense contractors would not be too happy if that were to
happen.


Israeli defense contractors will be (very happy).
Friendship between US and Israel is a two way street.

Yep. We give the Israelis beaucoup bucks, and they turn around and
sell their most advanced military products to the PRC while
simultaneously engaging in espionage activities here in the US. One
hell of a two way street you got there.

Brooks

(Kevin Brooks) wrote in message . com...
(Quant) wrote in message . com...
wrote in message . ..
On 1 Jul 2003 15:34:02 -0700, (Kevin Brooks)
wrote:

wrote in message . ..
On 30 Jun 2003 18:31:07 -0700, (Kevin Brooks)
wrote:

(Quant) wrote in message . com...
This post is specially for brooks.

Hebrew:
http://www.globes.co.il/serve/globes...asp?did=701548


Israel Aircraft Industries was excluded from the Airbus 380 project
because of a political decision of the goverment of Israel to buy only
Boeing planes by El Al.

What brand of cheese do you prefer to go with that whine? Hey, turn
down the billions in US dollars your nation receives each year from
the US taxpayers, then you can come back and whine about losing out on
this contract as much as you want

So you acknowledge that "aid" to Israel is nothing but a quid pro quo.

LOL! Not hardly. You need to retake that course in logic--the salient
points apparently did not stick with you. I am merely pointing out
that whining about your economic/military dependency upon the US and
any negative impacts can easily be rendered moot by declaring you
won't accept further US aid (like *that* will ever happen).


American defense contractors would not be too happy if that were to
happen.


Israeli defense contractors will be (very happy).
Friendship between US and Israel is a two way street.

Yep. We give the Israelis beaucoup bucks, and they turn around and
sell their most advanced military products to the PRC while
simultaneously engaging in espionage activities here in the US. One
hell of a two way street you got there.

Brooks



Brooks knows the facts but he doesn't let them to confuse him.


1. The money America "give" is subsidizing the American industries and
hurting the Israeli industries.
2. Despite the fact that the American industries are heavily
subsidized they can't compete against the Israeli industries in price
and in many cases in quality. Instead of whining, develop your own
better weapons and you don't have to worry that somebody else has
better technology than yours.

On 2 Jul 2003 17:45:33 -0700, (Quant) wrote:

(Kevin Brooks) wrote in message . com...

Yep. We give the Israelis beaucoup bucks, and they turn around and
sell their most advanced military products to the PRC while
simultaneously engaging in espionage activities here in the US. One
hell of a two way street you got there.

1. The money America "give" is subsidizing the American industries and
hurting the Israeli industries.

Ten why does Israel accept it? Is the government really that stupid?
Or are they grateful for the aid in filling a big hole in their
budget?

2. Despite the fact that the American industries are heavily
subsidized they can't compete against the Israeli industries in price
and in many cases in quality.

And yet the Israel products repeatedly lose out to US products that
are "inferior" and "more expensive". Again, is Israel really that
stupid or are you missing something.

Something doesn't gel here. If Israel would be better off in terms of
cost and quality without the aid, then why take it?

On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 20:50:00 -0400 Peter Kemp
wrote:

:On 2 Jul 2003 17:45:33 -0700, (Quant) wrote:

(Kevin Brooks) wrote in message . com...

: Yep. We give the Israelis beaucoup bucks, and they turn around and
: sell their most advanced military products to the PRC while
: simultaneously engaging in espionage activities here in the US. One
: hell of a two way street you got there.

:1. The money America "give" is subsidizing the American industries and
:hurting the Israeli industries.

:Ten why does Israel accept it? Is the government really that stupid?

It allows the Israeli government to defer hard choices.

And, yes, it is stupid.

:Or are they grateful for the aid in filling a big hole in their
:budget?

Some are.

Some aren't, because making the hard choice would be much more beneficial in
the long term and thus accepting the money ends up hurting.

:2. Despite the fact that the American industries are heavily
:subsidized they can't compete against the Israeli industries in price
:and in many cases in quality.

:And yet the Israel products repeatedly lose out to US products that
:are "inferior" and "more expensive".

False.

Of course you can attempt to prove me wrong by supplying examples, but
supplying proof is rarely the interest of the typical Holocaust denier.

: Again, is Israel really that
:stupid or are you missing something.

Could be.

:Something doesn't gel here. If Israel would be better off in terms of
:cost and quality without the aid, then why take it?

It allows the Israeli government to defer making hard choices.

--
Binyamin Dissen
http://www.dissensoftware.com

On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 12:01:12 +0300, Binyamin Dissen
wrote:

On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 20:50:00 -0400 Peter Kemp
wrote:

:On 2 Jul 2003 17:45:33 -0700, (Quant) wrote:

:2. Despite the fact that the American industries are heavily
:subsidized they can't compete against the Israeli industries in price
:and in many cases in quality.

:And yet the Israel products repeatedly lose out to US products that
:are "inferior" and "more expensive".

False.

Of course you can attempt to prove me wrong by supplying examples, but
supplying proof is rarely the interest of the typical Holocaust denier.

Holocaust denier? Me? I suggest you alter your medication mate, as
I've said nothing of the sort *ever*, and I'd like to see you show one
iota of evidence that I have supported such notions.

As for proof, the IDF use of the M-16 vice the Galil, or the F-16 vice
the Lavi

On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 06:42:39 -0400 Peter Kemp
wrote:

:On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 12:01:12 +0300, Binyamin Dissen
wrote:

:On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 20:50:00 -0400 Peter Kemp
:wrote:

::On 2 Jul 2003 17:45:33 -0700, (Quant) wrote:

::2. Despite the fact that the American industries are heavily
::subsidized they can't compete against the Israeli industries in price
::and in many cases in quality.

::And yet the Israel products repeatedly lose out to US products that
::are "inferior" and "more expensive".

:False.

:Of course you can attempt to prove me wrong by supplying examples, but
:supplying proof is rarely the interest of the typical Holocaust denier.

:Holocaust denier? Me? I suggest you alter your medication mate, as
:I've said nothing of the sort *ever*, and I'd like to see you show one
:iota of evidence that I have supported such notions.

:As for proof, the IDF use of the M-16 vice the Galil, or the F-16 vice
:the Lavi

Have you compared the prices of each to the GOI?

In these cases the inferior product is also cheaper.

--
Binyamin Dissen
http://www.dissensoftware.com

Binyamin Dissen wrote in message . ..
On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 06:42:39 -0400 Peter Kemp
wrote:

:On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 12:01:12 +0300, Binyamin Dissen
wrote:

:On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 20:50:00 -0400 Peter Kemp
:wrote:

::On 2 Jul 2003 17:45:33 -0700, (Quant) wrote:

::2. Despite the fact that the American industries are heavily
::subsidized they can't compete against the Israeli industries in price
::and in many cases in quality.

::And yet the Israel products repeatedly lose out to US products that
::are "inferior" and "more expensive".

:False.

:Of course you can attempt to prove me wrong by supplying examples, but
:supplying proof is rarely the interest of the typical Holocaust denier.

:Holocaust denier? Me? I suggest you alter your medication mate, as
:I've said nothing of the sort *ever*, and I'd like to see you show one
:iota of evidence that I have supported such notions.

:As for proof, the IDF use of the M-16 vice the Galil, or the F-16 vice
:the Lavi

Have you compared the prices of each to the GOI?

In these cases the inferior product is also cheaper.


Benny,
The Galil is too heavy for the infantry but Israel continues to use it
for the armored force and other units. For the near future the IDF
also preferred the excellent M-16 M4 on the new Israeli Tavor bullpup
but the main reason was the dollaric budget of the IDF (American guns
don't cost money to Israel, its part of the military aid).
The Lavi is irrelevant today. It was buried 20 years ago when the US
tried to prevent competition to the F-16.

The bottom line is that we all agree that Israel-US relations are a
mutual relations and that it's wrong to say that the US was "doing a
favor" to Israel when it decided to give financial/military aid to
Israel and to other states in the region.

Binyamin Dissen wrote in message . ..
On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 20:50:00 -0400 Peter Kemp
wrote:

:On 2 Jul 2003 17:45:33 -0700, (Quant) wrote:

(Kevin Brooks) wrote in message . com...

: Yep. We give the Israelis beaucoup bucks, and they turn around and
: sell their most advanced military products to the PRC while
: simultaneously engaging in espionage activities here in the US. One
: hell of a two way street you got there.

:1. The money America "give" is subsidizing the American industries and
:hurting the Israeli industries.

:Ten why does Israel accept it? Is the government really that stupid?

It allows the Israeli government to defer hard choices.

And, yes, it is stupid.

:Or are they grateful for the aid in filling a big hole in their
:budget?

Some are.

Some aren't, because making the hard choice would be much more beneficial in
the long term and thus accepting the money ends up hurting.

:2. Despite the fact that the American industries are heavily
:subsidized they can't compete against the Israeli industries in price
:and in many cases in quality.

:And yet the Israel products repeatedly lose out to US products that
:are "inferior" and "more expensive".

False.

Of course you can attempt to prove me wrong by supplying examples, but
supplying proof is rarely the interest of the typical Holocaust denier.

How ripe (and unfortunately, to be expected). Anytime someone is
critical of Israeli policies, or dares to differ with an
Israeli/Pro-Israeli, the old "racist/Holocaust denier" card is whipped
out. I mean, how DARE someone have the temerity to disagree with
Israeli policy--obvious evidence in that of a deep-seated
racial/religious prejudice.

Is it just me, or is there a serious logical disconnect in that
reasoning path?

Brooks

Peter Kemp wrote in message . ..
On 2 Jul 2003 17:45:33 -0700, (Quant) wrote:

(Kevin Brooks) wrote in message . com...

Yep. We give the Israelis beaucoup bucks, and they turn around and
sell their most advanced military products to the PRC while
simultaneously engaging in espionage activities here in the US. One
hell of a two way street you got there.

1. The money America "give" is subsidizing the American industries and
hurting the Israeli industries.

Ten why does Israel accept it? Is the government really that stupid?
Or are they grateful for the aid in filling a big hole in their
budget?

2. Despite the fact that the American industries are heavily
subsidized they can't compete against the Israeli industries in price
and in many cases in quality.

And yet the Israel products repeatedly lose out to US products that
are "inferior" and "more expensive". Again, is Israel really that
stupid or are you missing something.


I also recommand you too take a look at the following sites:
http://www.iai.co.il/
http://www.rafael.co.il/
http://www.elbit.co.il/products11.htm

and here is a small message apearing now on Rafael site's frontpage:

"U.S. Air Force upgrades 47 targeting pods to Litening AT; completes
integration of Litening ER on F-16 Block 40, 50."

IAI, Elbit, (and soon Rafael too) are profitable companies. They
couldn't present wide variety of high quality products without having
customers.


Something doesn't gel here. If Israel would be better off in terms of
cost and quality without the aid, then why take it?

(Quant) wrote in message . com...
(Kevin Brooks) wrote in message . com...
(Quant) wrote in message . com...
wrote in message . ..
On 1 Jul 2003 15:34:02 -0700, (Kevin Brooks)
wrote:

wrote in message . ..
On 30 Jun 2003 18:31:07 -0700, (Kevin Brooks)
wrote:

(Quant) wrote in message . com...
This post is specially for brooks.

Hebrew:
http://www.globes.co.il/serve/globes...asp?did=701548


Israel Aircraft Industries was excluded from the Airbus 380 project
because of a political decision of the goverment of Israel to buy only
Boeing planes by El Al.

What brand of cheese do you prefer to go with that whine? Hey, turn
down the billions in US dollars your nation receives each year from
the US taxpayers, then you can come back and whine about losing out on
this contract as much as you want

So you acknowledge that "aid" to Israel is nothing but a quid pro quo.

LOL! Not hardly. You need to retake that course in logic--the salient
points apparently did not stick with you. I am merely pointing out
that whining about your economic/military dependency upon the US and
any negative impacts can easily be rendered moot by declaring you
won't accept further US aid (like *that* will ever happen).


American defense contractors would not be too happy if that were to
happen.


Israeli defense contractors will be (very happy).
Friendship between US and Israel is a two way street.

Yep. We give the Israelis beaucoup bucks, and they turn around and
sell their most advanced military products to the PRC while
simultaneously engaging in espionage activities here in the US. One
hell of a two way street you got there.

Brooks



Brooks knows the facts but he doesn't let them to confuse him.

No, I just recognize the distinct difference between "facts" and the
laughable crud you have been peddling.

1. The money America "give" is subsidizing the American industries and
hurting the Israeli industries.

So Israel is inherently *stupid*, accepting these funds against their
own best interests? LOL! I don't think so...do you?

2. Despite the fact that the American industries are heavily
subsidized they can't compete against the Israeli industries in price
and in many cases in quality.

That is a good one. Evidence of all of those rampant subsidies? And
when was the last time the international market screamed for delivery
of the latest *Israeli* automobiles, trucks, computers, aircraft,
etc.?

Instead of whining, develop your own
better weapons and you don't have to worry that somebody else has
better technology than yours.

Which really explains why israel buys so many "inferior* US weapons,
right? You apparently *do* think the israelis are stupid...

Brooks