Multiengine Rating

Jim Burns wrote:
I did my initial multi training in an Apache (which when heavily loaded on a
hot day will really show you what the second engine is for), created a
partnership that purchased an Aztec (which we love) and did my MEI training
in a Beech Travel Air.



I used to fly for a cancelled check courier service that used Apaches. When
they first were transitioning me from the Lance to the Apache, I really didn't
want to fly it. Their's had the usual nonstandard instrument placement that I
came to expect from them but one of their birds had the long Aztec nose and 180
hp engines instead of the usual 150 hp engines. I was really leery of flying it
but they pushed and pushed until I agreed.

The first time I was supposed to fly it the chief pilot showed up with it early
one morning. As it turned out, we had a huge load that morning and with the two
of us on board, we were going to be about 300 lbs over gross. "Go ahead and
take it back to RDU without me. It'll never get off the ground with both of
us", I said.

"Sure it will.", he said.

"Bull****."

Well, he kept insisting so I finally agreed. What the hell, I had a good mile
and a half of runway in front of me. Surely we could waddle into the sky with
that kind of space. I poured the coals to it.

That thing came off the ground like a scalded cat before I crossed the
intersecting runway 1100 feet down from where I started. "Hmmm...there might be
something to this after all." I came to really appreciate its ability to climb
and later learned how ridiculously short and steep you could land it. People
used to come out to watch me land it just because you wouldn't think an airplane
could do what that one could. I ended up really enjoying flying it (except in
the rain where I would land looking like I'd ridden on the outside). When it
was cold the Janitrol heater would cause me to get headaches and my lips would
go numb. And riding though thunderstorms was like a cork floating in the ocean
with those big fat wings. But it sure would fly.

Then one day it was sick and I had to fly one of the older Apaches with the 150
hp engines. What a POS. Couldn't recommend that to anyone.

One thing they all shared was a single hydraulic pump that was needed to raise
and lower both gear and flaps. If you lost the left engine, you lost a hell of
a lot. IIFC they had generators instead of alternators too. The carburetors
were prone to carb ice in humid conditions. And the radios were state of the
art when Lindbergh crossed the Atlantic.

Interesting flying, that.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:


but one of their birds had the long Aztec nose and 180
hp engines instead of the usual 150 hp engines.

That was the PA 23-180, "Geronimo" conversion. I got my multi in one of
those
and later had a real engine out experience (right one) on a cross
country with my family.
Fortunately, we were not in the mountains.

"RomeoMike" wrote

That was the PA 23-180, "Geronimo" conversion. I got my multi in one of
those
and later had a real engine out experience (right one) on a cross country
with my family.
Fortunately, we were not in the mountains.

What was the approximate single engine service ceiling? (if that is the
right way to say it for multis)
--
Jim in NC

That's the correct phraseology. Loose an engine and you'll descend to the
single engine service ceiling (density altitude). The Aztec is 6000 ft.
Plenty of MEA's out west that are higher than that.
Jim

"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"RomeoMike" wrote

That was the PA 23-180, "Geronimo" conversion. I got my multi in one of
those
and later had a real engine out experience (right one) on a cross
country
with my family.
Fortunately, we were not in the mountains.

What was the approximate single engine service ceiling? (if that is the
right way to say it for multis)
--
Jim in NC

"Jim" wrote

That's the correct phraseology. Loose an engine and you'll descend to the
single engine service ceiling (density altitude). The Aztec is 6000 ft.
Plenty of MEA's out west that are higher than that.

Since this is usenet and nitpicking is all the rage... the above is not
quite correct. Service ceiling is the altitude at which you can no longer
climb faster than something like 100 fpm. If you're above the service
ceiling when you lose the engine you will probably be able to maintain
something somewhat higher, like maybe 6005 feet...

BDS

Ahh... your nit is picked correctly Absolute single engine ceiling would
be more correct.

Another nit would be that those numbers are created by test pilots and then
"altered" by salesman. For instance the service ceiling for the Aztec is
around 15,000 feet... yeah right! I've had ours up to 13,000 at full gross,
and I tell you I had to step climb to get up that last 1000 feet, and it was
at no where near 100 fpm.
Jim

"BDS" wrote in message
t...

"Jim" wrote

That's the correct phraseology. Loose an engine and you'll descend to
the
single engine service ceiling (density altitude). The Aztec is 6000 ft.
Plenty of MEA's out west that are higher than that.

Since this is usenet and nitpicking is all the rage... the above is not
quite correct. Service ceiling is the altitude at which you can no longer
climb faster than something like 100 fpm. If you're above the service
ceiling when you lose the engine you will probably be able to maintain
something somewhat higher, like maybe 6005 feet...

BDS

That's the correct phraseology. Loose an engine and you'll descend to the
single engine service ceiling (density altitude). The Aztec is 6000 ft.
Plenty of MEA's out west that are higher than that.

Since this is usenet and nitpicking is all the rage... the above is not
quite correct. Service ceiling is the altitude at which you can no longer
climb faster than something like 100 fpm. If you're above the service
ceiling when you lose the engine you will probably be able to maintain
something somewhat higher, like maybe 6005 feet...

.... and if you actually "loose" an engine, you'll be able to maintain an
even higher altitude, as you won't have the weight and drag of that
engine any more.

Jose
--
He who laughs, lasts.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jose" wrote in message
et...
... and if you actually "loose" an engine, you'll be able to maintain an
even higher altitude, as you won't have the weight and drag of that
engine any more.

Pitty the guy that that engine "finds".
Imagine the insurance claims the airplane owner AND the engine finder would
have.
"Yep, I lost an engine"
"Sorry, that's not covered under your policy"
"No, I actually LOST the engine, it's GONE."
hmmmm
Jim

50 fpm for multiengine with an engine inop.


"BDS" wrote in message
t...
|
| "Jim" wrote
|
| That's the correct phraseology. Loose an engine and
you'll descend to the
| single engine service ceiling (density altitude). The
Aztec is 6000 ft.
| Plenty of MEA's out west that are higher than that.
|
| Since this is usenet and nitpicking is all the rage... the
above is not
| quite correct. Service ceiling is the altitude at which
you can no longer
| climb faster than something like 100 fpm. If you're above
the service
| ceiling when you lose the engine you will probably be able
to maintain
| something somewhat higher, like maybe 6005 feet...
|
| BDS
|
|

FAR 135 requires that gross weight be adjusted so the SE SC
is at or higher than the MEA or the aircraft must be flown
under the single-engine IFR rules with VFR descent always
possible.



"Jim" wrote in message
...
| That's the correct phraseology. Loose an engine and
you'll descend to the
| single engine service ceiling (density altitude). The
Aztec is 6000 ft.
| Plenty of MEA's out west that are higher than that.
| Jim
|
| "Morgans" wrote in message
| ...
|
| "RomeoMike" wrote
|
| That was the PA 23-180, "Geronimo" conversion. I got
my multi in one of
| those
| and later had a real engine out experience (right one)
on a cross
| country
| with my family.
| Fortunately, we were not in the mountains.
|
| What was the approximate single engine service ceiling?
(if that is the
| right way to say it for multis)
| --
| Jim in NC
|
|
|
|