Piper Archer II Air Leak Problem by Back Seat.

Sounds like a door seal that isn't sealing well. A door seal leaking,
especially along the back edge of the door will, suck air out of the
cockpit (same is true of the pilot's storm window, if you've ever opened
it in flight it creates a considerable suction, in fact there is a SB
that requires a placard warning not to open it over 150 MPH because
doing so creates enough suction to actually break the stock 1/8"
windshields). Being that it is the right side that has the draft,
rather confirms this diagnosis. I have a similar issue with the rear
left seat in my six. The door has a gap at the rear bottom and that
sucks cold air in from the screened air exhaust vents behind the back
seats making that one seat pretty chilly.

"Ray Andraka" wrote in message
...

Sounds like a door seal that isn't sealing well. A door seal leaking,
especially along the back edge of the door will, suck air out of the
cockpit (same is true of the pilot's storm window, if you've ever opened
it in flight it creates a considerable suction, in fact there is a SB that
requires a placard warning not to open it over 150 MPH because doing so
creates enough suction to actually break the stock 1/8" windshields).
Being that it is the right side that has the draft, rather confirms this
diagnosis. I have a similar issue with the rear left seat in my six. The
door has a gap at the rear bottom and that sucks cold air in from the
screened air exhaust vents behind the back seats making that one seat
pretty chilly.


Ray,

Well I think you may have hit the nail on the head.
We have recently replaced the floor mounted round vent seals, fitted new
overhead ducts and flapper valve.
The door seal will be replaced when the bird is painted in Feb and I know it
does not seal well.
So with the exception of the main door and baggage door the ship is pretty
air tight, that may have made the situation worse.

Thanks for the input.

Roy

We have recently replaced the floor mounted round vent seals, fitted new
overhead ducts and flapper valve.
The door seal will be replaced when the bird is painted in Feb and I know it
does not seal well.
So with the exception of the main door and baggage door the ship is pretty
air tight, that may have made the situation worse.

Ray's theory seems plausible. Just beware that putting on a new door
seal alone might not solve your door-seal problem. It sure didn't
with our old Warrior's door.

The Cherokee door is held on with two light-weight hinges that can (and
often will) be easily bent over time. (In my experience, EVERY
uneducated passenger or maintenance worker leans on that door when they
get in/out of the plane.) All it takes is someone leaning heavily on
the door with it wide open, and your door will NOT seal properly when
you close it, no matter what type of foam seal you may apply.

If your door is cockeyed in the opening, there are half a dozen
possible adjustments, some involving shims, others involving bending.
I spent many hours making my Warrior's door airtight, and can give you
some tips if it should come to that.

Good luck!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Thanks Jay,
I shall head over and get joined up.
Last year I was intending to go to the Fly-In but ran out of days to take
off from work.
Maybe this year, but intend to do Sun n Fun & OSH so we shall have to see
what happens.

Roy


"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...
As far as I can tell their is no draft coming out of the fine mesh plank
vent on the pilots side.

That is so weird. Is there something blocking *that* opening? I just
can't imagine what's causing that kind of strong air-flow.

The Cherokee Chat is the Cherokee Pilot's Association on-line chat
room. You've got to be a member, but it's worth every penny to join,
and then some. See them he http://www.piperowner.com/

With over 4000 Cherokee owners in the organization, you can always
count on getting an answer on ANY Cherokee question you might have.
And they have the BEST fly-in of the year. See info on that he
http://cherokeeflyin.com/

We've attended the last four, and intend to go again this year.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Hi Roy!

I second this.

That group has the most knowledgeable group on Cherokees bar none!
Newbees to seasoned AME's, and they all LOVE their Cherokees!

I think this discussion is closing in on UR prob, SOMETHING is
greating a vacuum in your cabin, and the cold air is roaring in to
replace the air being sucked out "somewhere"

How does the VSI respond to quickly closing the vent?

As to why the "left side vs right side"..scratching my bean on that
part...

Dave



On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 00:02:20 GMT, "Roy N5804F"
wrote:


Thanks Jay,
I shall head over and get joined up.
Last year I was intending to go to the Fly-In but ran out of days to take
off from work.
Maybe this year, but intend to do Sun n Fun & OSH so we shall have to see
what happens.

Roy


"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
roups.com...
As far as I can tell their is no draft coming out of the fine mesh plank
vent on the pilots side.

That is so weird. Is there something blocking *that* opening? I just
can't imagine what's causing that kind of strong air-flow.

The Cherokee Chat is the Cherokee Pilot's Association on-line chat
room. You've got to be a member, but it's worth every penny to join,
and then some. See them he http://www.piperowner.com/

With over 4000 Cherokee owners in the organization, you can always
count on getting an answer on ANY Cherokee question you might have.
And they have the BEST fly-in of the year. See info on that he
http://cherokeeflyin.com/

We've attended the last four, and intend to go again this year.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Dave,

I have signed up !

About the only instrument that I have not overhauled in this Archer is the
VSI.
It reads horribly optimistic, like, I have the only Archer ever built that
climbs on the plains here at 1200 FPM.
If I really try, I can make 1500 FPM :-)

I have to admit that I don't know much about the operation of a VSI
appertaining to an Archer :-(
I can't get my head round it at the moment, but could the slight negative
pressure in the cabin affect the VSI ?

Roy

"Dave" wrote in message
...
Hi Roy!

I second this.

That group has the most knowledgeable group on Cherokees bar none!
Newbees to seasoned AME's, and they all LOVE their Cherokees!

I think this discussion is closing in on UR prob, SOMETHING is
greating a vacuum in your cabin, and the cold air is roaring in to
replace the air being sucked out "somewhere"

How does the VSI respond to quickly closing the vent?

As to why the "left side vs right side"..scratching my bean on that
part...

Dave



On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 00:02:20 GMT, "Roy N5804F"
wrote:


Thanks Jay,
I shall head over and get joined up.
Last year I was intending to go to the Fly-In but ran out of days to take
off from work.
Maybe this year, but intend to do Sun n Fun & OSH so we shall have to see
what happens.

Roy


"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
groups.com...
As far as I can tell their is no draft coming out of the fine mesh
plank
vent on the pilots side.

That is so weird. Is there something blocking *that* opening? I just
can't imagine what's causing that kind of strong air-flow.

The Cherokee Chat is the Cherokee Pilot's Association on-line chat
room. You've got to be a member, but it's worth every penny to join,
and then some. See them he http://www.piperowner.com/

With over 4000 Cherokee owners in the organization, you can always
count on getting an answer on ANY Cherokee question you might have.
And they have the BEST fly-in of the year. See info on that he
http://cherokeeflyin.com/

We've attended the last four, and intend to go again this year.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On 01/17/07 08:35, Roy N5804F wrote:

Dave,

I have signed up !

About the only instrument that I have not overhauled in this Archer is the
VSI.
It reads horribly optimistic, like, I have the only Archer ever built that
climbs on the plains here at 1200 FPM.
If I really try, I can make 1500 FPM :-)

I have to admit that I don't know much about the operation of a VSI
appertaining to an Archer :-(
I can't get my head round it at the moment, but could the slight negative
pressure in the cabin affect the VSI ?

It shouldn't. The VSI should be vented (through a calibrated "leak") to
the static air source, outside. The cabin pressure shouldn't affect it,
unless you've selected the alternate static source, or there is a leak
between the static source and alternate static source.


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

"Mark Hansen" wrote in message
...
On 01/17/07 08:35, Roy N5804F wrote:

Dave,

I have signed up !

About the only instrument that I have not overhauled in this Archer is
the
VSI.
It reads horribly optimistic, like, I have the only Archer ever built
that
climbs on the plains here at 1200 FPM.
If I really try, I can make 1500 FPM :-)

I have to admit that I don't know much about the operation of a VSI
appertaining to an Archer :-(
I can't get my head round it at the moment, but could the slight negative
pressure in the cabin affect the VSI ?

It shouldn't. The VSI should be vented (through a calibrated "leak") to
the static air source, outside. The cabin pressure shouldn't affect it,
unless you've selected the alternate static source, or there is a leak
between the static source and alternate static source.

Thanks,
I had all the hoses replaced last year, incluing all in the cockpit and out
to the pitot tube.
Maybe they are all ok.
[I changed all the vacuum hoses as well]

Roy

Ahhhhhhhhhhh..... Rats!

Sorry..

Open the Alt static, THEN see if closing the airvent affects the
VSI..

If it momentarily swings positive, it could indicate a neg pressure
in the cabin..

Just a thought...

Sorry my first was not complete..

Dave


On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 16:35:35 GMT, "Roy N5804F"
wrote:


Dave,

I have signed up !

About the only instrument that I have not overhauled in this Archer is the
VSI.
It reads horribly optimistic, like, I have the only Archer ever built that
climbs on the plains here at 1200 FPM.
If I really try, I can make 1500 FPM :-)

I have to admit that I don't know much about the operation of a VSI
appertaining to an Archer :-(
I can't get my head round it at the moment, but could the slight negative
pressure in the cabin affect the VSI ?

Roy

"Dave" wrote in message
.. .
Hi Roy!

I second this.

That group has the most knowledgeable group on Cherokees bar none!
Newbees to seasoned AME's, and they all LOVE their Cherokees!

I think this discussion is closing in on UR prob, SOMETHING is
greating a vacuum in your cabin, and the cold air is roaring in to
replace the air being sucked out "somewhere"

How does the VSI respond to quickly closing the vent?

As to why the "left side vs right side"..scratching my bean on that
part...

Dave



On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 00:02:20 GMT, "Roy N5804F"
wrote:


Thanks Jay,
I shall head over and get joined up.
Last year I was intending to go to the Fly-In but ran out of days to take
off from work.
Maybe this year, but intend to do Sun n Fun & OSH so we shall have to see
what happens.

Roy


"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
egroups.com...
As far as I can tell their is no draft coming out of the fine mesh
plank
vent on the pilots side.

That is so weird. Is there something blocking *that* opening? I just
can't imagine what's causing that kind of strong air-flow.

The Cherokee Chat is the Cherokee Pilot's Association on-line chat
room. You've got to be a member, but it's worth every penny to join,
and then some. See them he http://www.piperowner.com/

With over 4000 Cherokee owners in the organization, you can always
count on getting an answer on ANY Cherokee question you might have.
And they have the BEST fly-in of the year. See info on that he
http://cherokeeflyin.com/

We've attended the last four, and intend to go again this year.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

:-)

Thanks Dave,

Roy


"Dave" wrote in message
...
Ahhhhhhhhhhh..... Rats!

Sorry..

Open the Alt static, THEN see if closing the airvent affects the
VSI..

If it momentarily swings positive, it could indicate a neg pressure
in the cabin..

Just a thought...

Sorry my first was not complete..

Dave


On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 16:35:35 GMT, "Roy N5804F"
wrote:


Dave,

I have signed up !

About the only instrument that I have not overhauled in this Archer is the
VSI.
It reads horribly optimistic, like, I have the only Archer ever built that
climbs on the plains here at 1200 FPM.
If I really try, I can make 1500 FPM :-)

I have to admit that I don't know much about the operation of a VSI
appertaining to an Archer :-(
I can't get my head round it at the moment, but could the slight negative
pressure in the cabin affect the VSI ?

Roy

"Dave" wrote in message
. ..
Hi Roy!

I second this.

That group has the most knowledgeable group on Cherokees bar none!
Newbees to seasoned AME's, and they all LOVE their Cherokees!

I think this discussion is closing in on UR prob, SOMETHING is
greating a vacuum in your cabin, and the cold air is roaring in to
replace the air being sucked out "somewhere"

How does the VSI respond to quickly closing the vent?

As to why the "left side vs right side"..scratching my bean on that
part...

Dave



On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 00:02:20 GMT, "Roy N5804F"
wrote:


Thanks Jay,
I shall head over and get joined up.
Last year I was intending to go to the Fly-In but ran out of days to
take
off from work.
Maybe this year, but intend to do Sun n Fun & OSH so we shall have to
see
what happens.

Roy


"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
legroups.com...
As far as I can tell their is no draft coming out of the fine mesh
plank
vent on the pilots side.

That is so weird. Is there something blocking *that* opening? I
just
can't imagine what's causing that kind of strong air-flow.

The Cherokee Chat is the Cherokee Pilot's Association on-line chat
room. You've got to be a member, but it's worth every penny to join,
and then some. See them he http://www.piperowner.com/

With over 4000 Cherokee owners in the organization, you can always
count on getting an answer on ANY Cherokee question you might have.
And they have the BEST fly-in of the year. See info on that he
http://cherokeeflyin.com/

We've attended the last four, and intend to go again this year.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"