Checklist exchange

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:

Or just in case the flight ends badly and you want to give us something to
talk about.

"Watch This"


I thought it went "Y'all watch this!" ;^)

Ron Natalie wrote:
B A R R Y wrote:


I call OUT the storm window, not to anyone inside.

That's why we call it the "clear prop window". Not
much good for anything else.

I've got an air scoop, so it's a tad more useful. Don't forget the
storm window's utility when closing an in-flight open door!

Or a multiengine with the engines well behind the cockpit.

With the advent of cheap and small webcams and glass
cockpits, an array of small cameras could be used to clear
the area, check landing gear and flap positions and ice. If
the cameras had IR and visual sensitivity, they would even
be useful in fog.



wrote in message
oups.com...
| Duncan (NZ) wrote:
| If you can't see them, then they're nowhere near the
prop (unless
| they're sneakin' about on their bellies under the
fuselage somewhere -
|
| Or they are a child, or you are in a tail dragger with
zero forward vis
| on the ground.
|

B A R R Y wrote:
Ron Natalie wrote:
B A R R Y wrote:


I call OUT the storm window, not to anyone inside.

That's why we call it the "clear prop window". Not
much good for anything else.

I've got an air scoop, so it's a tad more useful. Don't forget the
storm window's utility when closing an in-flight open door!

Doors are for barns. Real aircraft have canopies.

I always wonder how people who rely on tons of checklists would manage
if we took your checklists away ???

Oh, just fine A checklist is a reminder, not an operating instruction.
In many cases I look through the checklist after I did the procedure just
to make sure I hadn't missed anything, since the procedure is already
automatic.

Andrey Serbinenko wrote:
Everybody's using checklists. I've started with the stuff from POH, plus
whatever my instructor recommended, and then over time more and more little
things got added to them out of experience. Yet more things got added as I
started my instrument training. The basic stuff is probably not so interesting
since it is everywhere. What is indeed interesting, I think, is those little
things that other people may have in their checklists that I don't have --
stuff that's grown out of individual mistakes. Often you can arrange things in
such a way that it makes making a mistake more difficult and so on.
I'm going to proceed and publish here some of my C172 checklists. If that
turns out to be interesting, I also have my RG/complex checklists for Cutlass.
Hope this is going to result in a fruitful exchange of information...

Andrey

Here's what I use for my Cherokee. Didn't use one for my Tri-Pacer, but
with age I've become wiser and more forgetful.

Start
Mixture rich
Master Switch on
Fullest tank
Prime
Fuel pump on
Check fuel pressure
Ignition to both
Start
Check gauges
Fuel pump off

Taxi
Audio amp on
Comms on
Transponder on
Strobes on
Beacon on

Runup
Brakes on
Check Mags
Check Carb heat
Set Altimeter
Set Directional Gyro
Set Artificial Horizon

Takeoff
Door latched
Fuel pump on

Landing
Mixture rich
Fullest tank
Fuel pump on
--
Gene Seibel
Hangar 131 - http://pad39a.com/gene/plane.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.

Your checklist omits a number of important items and actually

What I presented here wasn't a complete operating instruction, nor was it
a complete checklist that I use. For example, I omitted the whole section
on the pre-flight performed outside the cockpit, or any of the emergency
checklists.

You seem to love to switch fuel selectors all over (see below)

Not at all. The idea is to have both "left" and "right" fuel paths working
individually for some time to make sure there's nothing in the way. So,
I taxi on one tank and do runup on the other. There's still enough time
between when I last touch the selector and the takeoff to see if there's any
problems on "both".

You take the key out before you fly? Odd. My checklist says "make sure

I take the key out after I'm done with the "inside" pre-flight, and put it
on top of the panel in plain view. I have a habit of glancing over to see
it there before touching the prop during the "outside" pre-flight.

4. landing light check
Check how?

When you turn the light on, ammeter's needle shows increase in discharge
rate. If the bulb has burnt out, there's no discharge.

10. all lights verify off
Huh? What difference does it make if the master is off.

If I forgot to turn off the panel lights after a night flight, for example,
I'm not going to see that they're still on next day, since it'll be
daylight, and they'll wind up being on all day. Those little bulbs
burn out pretty quickly. Besides, it's always good to leave the plane
in a known state.

Actually, I leave the beacon on all the time. Makes it handy

Yes, I do that, too. I don't include beacon in "all lights". Again, checklist
is a reminder, not a comprehensive operating instruction.

19. lights on
What lights? You already turned them on a few steps earlier?

That were nav lights and beacon. Here I take care of any other lights I
might need for the flight -- panel lights, adjusting brightness of radio
panel lights etc.

6. alt static/VSI check
Check? How about saying what you are checking for.

When you pull alt static, there's a momentary fluctuation in
VSI, after which it's supposed to return to zero. When the
engine is running and there's some slipstream around the cabin,
pressure inside is slightly lower than outside, so if you pull
alt static, VSI will show a momentary climb. It's just to check
that static system is not blocked and your VSI is not frozen.

7. comm 1,2 check
Gosh I hope you're not one of those guys who chews up the UNICOM

No. I check comms by using them normally. I simply make a point of
using both comms while still on the ground. I may use one for getting
atis and the other one for ground. That's checking at least that I
can receive, squelch is working, volume knob has good contact etc.

9. transponder test
10. vor 1,2 test
11. adf test

How so?

Transponder has "self-test" position: the light should illuminate.
VORs I check by tuning them to the localizer freq of my airport:
I get the id checked and proper deflection of the needle. In some
radiostacks VORs have self-test position. ADF also has a self-test
position (the needle starts to turn around).

1. nose straight
Nose straight isn't important, into the wind might help

If nosewheel is not straight when you stopped, it'll be difficult
to verify full travel of the rudder.

chris wrote:

I always wonder how people who rely on tons of checklists would manage
if we took your checklists away ???

They would probably fare quite well, as they had been practicing and
using the checklist. When faced with a situation where the
checklist went "out the window", or was not available, likely they
would complete the same items, in the same order. I know that
has been my experience.

The FAA and AOPA have published articles about the consequences of
not following (using) written checklists. For example, see:
http://www.aopa.org/members/ftmag/ar...fm?article=279

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/ccdd54376bfdf5fd862569d100733983/$FILE/Chap%201-3.pdf

Where it discusses:

1 Neglect of Flight Planning, Preflight Inspecions, Checklists,
Etc. Unjustified reliance on the pilot.s short and long term
memory, regular flying skills, repetitive and familiar routes,
etc.

a. The Impulsivity Hazardous Attitude. (1) Situation: As you
enter the landing pattern, you normally lower the flaps. The tower
suddenly changes the active -runway. Distracted, you forget to use
the before-landing checklist. On short final you find yourself
dangerously low with a high sink rate. Glancing down, you realize
that you forgot to extend the flaps.

I've found the pilots who "can remember the checklist" and/or "use
the flow" without backing it up with a written checklist often miss
not just one, but several items. During transition training to
other aircraft, and during Flight Reviews, there are usually several
opportunities to point out the value "use of a written checklist"
even in a Cessna-172 or Cherokee!

YMMV. I find written checklists to be a help, not a hinderence.
Checklists may be operated as a "to-do" list, or an after-the-flow
"cross-check" or "final-check" that everything was accomplished.

Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocations!"
--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jer at frii.com http://users.frii.com/jer/
C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot BM218 HAM N0FZD 247 Young Eagles!

Great advice John. As another datapoint, I was walking along the
parking ramp to my aircraft and a Bo started up when I was by his
wingtip walking towards the prop. He didn't do ANYTHING to notify
anyone that he was starting, no beacon, no nav lights, and most of all,
no "clear prop" call-out. I gave him a dirty look while he looked up
with a surpised look on his fat, dumb and clueless face. Had he called
out from his side window, I would have heard him clear as day.

That day made sure I would never forget that checklist item.

Marco

JGalban wrote:

The purpose is the same as it's always been. To warn anyone nearby
that the prop is about to turn into a meat grinder. I'm not sure what
you're flying, but many of the planes I fly do not allow me to see
everything around me. Also, I've had my head in the cockpit for the
past few minutes, performing the prestart checks and I haven't been
concentrating on the movements of passerbys.

Quite often on the ramp at my home field a nearby pilot will call "All
clear" in response to my "clear", as he can see the area directly infront of
and underneath the nose. Just another nice piece of etiquette. Also it let's
people know it will get a bit breezy behind the plane.
I also see a lot of pilots shout clear and then immediately crank the
plane.... please make the call worthwhile by waiting a couple of seconds. Oh
and take the headset off or uncover one ear, just in case someone is
shouting something at you (like don't start, there's a kid playing with the
prop). I know it is unlikely but for that 1 in 1000000 chance, what has it
cost you?

- Barney

"Duncan (NZ)" wrote in message
. nz...
In article ,
says...

Everybody's using checklists. I've started with the stuff from POH, plus
whatever my instructor recommended, and then over time more and more
little
things got added to them out of experience. Yet more things got added as
I
started my instrument training. The basic stuff is probably not so
interesting
since it is everywhere. What is indeed interesting, I think, is those
little
things that other people may have in their checklists that I don't
have --
stuff that's grown out of individual mistakes. Often you can arrange
things in
such a way that it makes making a mistake more difficult and so on.
I'm going to proceed and publish here some of my C172 checklists. If that
turns out to be interesting, I also have my RG/complex checklists for
Cutlass.
Hope this is going to result in a fruitful exchange of information...

Andrey





==============================================
C172

PRE-FLIGHT
1. hobbs record
2. inspections check
3. ARROW check
4. windows check clean
5. control lock remove
6. parking brake set
7. avionics verify off
8. master on
9. fuel gauges check indication
10. flaps down
11. turn coordinator check no flag
12. pitot heat check
13. lights check
14. master off
15. trim visually check
16. fuel selector both
17. key verify removed


POST-FLIGHT
1. avionics off
2. ignition ground check
3. mixture cut-off
4. landing light check
5. master off
6. key remove
7. fuel selector left
8. trim for take-off
9. control lock set
10. all lights verify off
11. hobbs record
12. flight plan close


ENGINE START
1. pre-flight complete
2. pax briefed
3. seat belts secure
4. brakes check pressure
5. mixture rich
6. fuel selector both
7. throttle 1/8

gonna check throttle friction?

8. carb heat off
9. nav light & beacon on
10. avionics verify off
11. prime as required
12. master on
13. clear prop call

who does that achieve these days - why "call it"? - just look around
(what else is required). What purpose does calling it out achieve to
those in the plane. I feel it's antiquated. I just have a good look
around (the *outside*) to see that no-one is near to walk into the thing
when it's spinning.

14. ignition engage
15. throttle 800-1000 rpm
16. oil pressure/temp check
17. vacuum check
18. ammeter check
19. lights on
20. circuit breakers check
21. avionics on


PRE-TAXI
1. altimeter set
2. ATIS receive
3. altimeter reset
4. DG align with compass
5. AI set level
6. alt static/VSI check
7. comm 1,2 check
8. mkr lights check
9. transponder test
10. vor 1,2 test
11. adf test
12. comm/nav set as required
13. transponder standby VFR
14. trim verify for t/o
15. flaps up
16. fuel selector left
17. clearance receive
18. transponder set as required
19. taxi light on
20. parking brake release
21. brakes check


TAXI
1. turn coordinator verify
2. DG verify
3. compass verify
4. AI verify
5. controls position for wind


RUNUP
1. nose straight
2. parking brake set
3. taxi light off
4. controls free and correct
5. 6-pack check
6. avionics set as required
7. mixture rich
8. fuel selector right
9. throttle 1700 rpm
10. oil pressure/temp check
11. vacuum check
12. ammeter check under load
13. magnetos check
14. carb heat check
15. idle check
16. fuel selector both
17. primer verify locked


PRE-TAKE-OFF
1. mixture as required
2. fuel selector both
3. carb heat off
4. primer locked
5. flaps as required
6. trim for t/o
7. take-off briefing complete
BRIEFING:
1. rotation speed
2. best glide speed
3. runway required
4. runway available
5. engine quits: a. before rotation - abort take-off
b. below 800' agl - land straigt ahead +/- 30deg
c. above 800' agl - turn (which way) for
landing on (which) runway
8. seat belts secure
9. doors & windows locked


TAKE-OFF
1. landing light on
2. strobes on
3. transponder mode C
4. DG verify runway heading
5. time note
6. engine rpm verify full power
7. oil pressure/temp in the green
8. airspeed alive


PRE-LANDING
1. mixture rich
2. fuel selector both
3. primer locked
4. landing light on
5. seat belts secure
6. brakes check pressure
7. carb heat as required

how would you know? (eg it's about to be required - how can you tell
that situation. Me.. carb heat ON (as I throttle back at end of
downwind). And I turn it back OFF established final (ready for full
power at anytime thereafter, and knowing it's had a good application
just prior.


8. flaps as required


POST-LANDING
1. carb heat off
2. flaps up
3. transponder standby
4. landing light off
5. strobes off
6. time note
==============================================

Jeez that's a lot of checks n' stuff - some doubled up, eg controls full
and free (only need to do that as ye pre-t/o - well that's what
methinks).

A very comprehensive list I might add.

--
Duncan