Multiengine Rating

wrote:

In a risk to feed possible flamebait, I'll bite. I'll assume you just
don't have experience with this.

You must be new around here.

writes:

I've only heard of one case of this happening, and it was due to the
aircraft (C172) being configured for ferry flight.

No, it was due to bugs in the software of the G1000. Bugs aren't
acceptable in safety-of-life systems. No matter how the aircraft is
configured, there's no excuse for a reboot.

Besides, any good instruction includes what to do if you have an
electrical/system failure.

A reboot is not an electrical system failure.

For preliminary training, understanding instrumentation, basic
aerodynamics, etc, MSFS isn't bad. However, if you really want to
learn procedures and *actually* fly, you need to get in the plane. MSFS
doesn't simulate everything. The G1000 simulator that is available
from Garmin is a great tool as well to understand the different
capabilities of the glass cockpit as well, and is very cost effective.
I've done both. But you eventually need to get in the aircraft and fly
it. Flying in real life is quite a bit different than any simulator
(with possible exception of the full motion sims).

Finally, being a Frasca and approved by the FAA, I can log instrument
approaches, and time in the Sim. You can't do that with MSFS. Also
getting hands on experience with the equipment is vital to actual
flying.

Does Frasca build full-motion simulators? I think I saw something on
their site, but I'm not sure. Also, do they build simulators for
_specific_ GA aircraft, or only for generic aircraft of a given type?

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Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:

I've only heard of one case of this happening, and it was due to the
aircraft (C172) being configured for ferry flight.

No, it was due to bugs in the software of the G1000. Bugs aren't
acceptable in safety-of-life systems. No matter how the aircraft is
configured, there's no excuse for a reboot.

Besides, any good instruction includes what to do if you have an
electrical/system failure.

A reboot is not an electrical system failure.

For preliminary training, understanding instrumentation, basic
aerodynamics, etc, MSFS isn't bad. However, if you really want to
learn procedures and *actually* fly, you need to get in the plane. MSFS
doesn't simulate everything. The G1000 simulator that is available
from Garmin is a great tool as well to understand the different
capabilities of the glass cockpit as well, and is very cost effective.
I've done both. But you eventually need to get in the aircraft and fly
it. Flying in real life is quite a bit different than any simulator
(with possible exception of the full motion sims).

Finally, being a Frasca and approved by the FAA, I can log instrument
approaches, and time in the Sim. You can't do that with MSFS. Also
getting hands on experience with the equipment is vital to actual
flying.

Does Frasca build full-motion simulators? I think I saw something on
their site, but I'm not sure. Also, do they build simulators for
_specific_ GA aircraft, or only for generic aircraft of a given type?

Actually not it was never shown to be bugs in the software. The system
was modified outside of it's design parameters and all NW_pilot did was
complain about it happening and he never did say what the outcome was
nor would he answer detailed questions about what did happen on the
flight. His report was hearsay at it's worse.

No, it was due to bugs in the software of the G1000. Bugs aren't
acceptable in safety-of-life systems. No matter how the aircraft is
configured, there's no excuse for a reboot.


If you have a link, I'd like to see an article about this. I've never
heard of this.
FWIW, in my limited actual G1000 experience the unit is rock solid.

As for reboots, Airbus has had there share of issues with the A319/A320
series as of late. They have SOPS to handle issues like this.

If we continue this thread, we should consider moving it to a new
thread as this really has nothing to do with Multiengine Ratings.



Does Frasca build full-motion simulators? I think I saw something on
their site, but I'm not sure. Also, do they build simulators for
_specific_ GA aircraft, or only for generic aircraft of a given type?

Yes. Generic, specific, full motion. See:

http://frasca.com/web_pages/brochures/products.htm

FWIW: Also Elite builds several types of simulators.

Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:

I've only heard of one case of this happening, and it was due to the
aircraft (C172) being configured for ferry flight.

No, it was due to bugs in the software of the G1000. Bugs aren't
acceptable in safety-of-life systems. No matter how the aircraft is
configured, there's no excuse for a reboot.


You have no way of knowing that. You got your information from the same
place I did. Right here in this newsgroup.



Besides, any good instruction includes what to do if you have an
electrical/system failure.

A reboot is not an electrical system failure.


As you read this I want you to reach down and unplug your computer and plug
it back in. I'll wait.............


Did it reboot?

John Theune writes:

Actually not it was never shown to be bugs in the software.

The software rebooted the system. The software was standard. It
contained bugs. Bugs are dangerous in safety-of-life systems.

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writes:

As for reboots, Airbus has had there share of issues with the A319/A320
series as of late. They have SOPS to handle issues like this.

Maybe if the just fixed the bugs instead of trying to work around them
they'd be in better shape today.

Yes. Generic, specific, full motion. See:

http://frasca.com/web_pages/brochures/products.htm

Cool. I wouldn't mind having Baron 58 and 737 simulators. It's
interesting to note that the visuals aren't much better than MSFS,
though. But eye candy isn't always essential for good simulation.

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Gig 601XL Builder writes:

You have no way of knowing that.

Reboots are always caused by software, unless power to the system is
interrupted (including hardware reset signals). If the power is on,
and the system reboots, there's a bug.

You got your information from the same
place I did. Right here in this newsgroup.

It's a general principle of IT that is universally applicable.
Well-designed software does not crash. A crash is a defect in design.

As you read this I want you to reach down and unplug your computer and plug
it back in. I'll wait.............


Did it reboot?

As I've said, a reboot is not an electrical system failure. It's easy
to reboot a system without any interruption in electrical power.

As it happens, my computers are on UPS, so if the power fails, they
continue to run (at least for a while).

--
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Mxsmanic wrote:
John Theune writes:

Actually not it was never shown to be bugs in the software.

The software rebooted the system. The software was standard. It
contained bugs. Bugs are dangerous in safety-of-life systems.

The software was running on hardware that had been modified outside the
scope of what the software was designed for. There were questions
raised during the initial discussion about damage to the hardware due to
the installation of other components into the panel. You have no
knowledge if there were bugs in the software or not. but then again
this line of argument is just the same as all the others you have put forth

On Jan 24, 2:52 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
Gig 601XL Builder writes:
You have no way of knowing that.Reboots are always caused by software, unless power to the system is
interrupted (including hardware reset signals). If the power is on,
and the system reboots, there's a bug.


On Jan 24, 2:52 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
Gig 601XL Builder writes:
You have no way of knowing that.Reboots are always caused by software, unless power to the system is
interrupted (including hardware reset signals). If the power is on,
and the system reboots, there's a bug.

So with that logic, I can take any computer, plug in any device, say a
modified toaster that uses the USB port, and if it "reboots" the
computer is a bug caused by the OS. It has nothing to do with the fact
that I plugged in an unapproved device, or I made a change that caused
the system to fail.

In my 28 years of computer experience, bad hardware, poor connections
and poor wiring can cause problems. Over-ranging a thermal sensor in my
past experience has caused issues with a chemical plant controller. Was
it software error? No, in this case it was that the sensor was
mis-specified in the original plant design.

Did you ever find the articles about G1000 failures or reboots other
than the one case on the Usenet?

I think if this was a widespread problem it would be well known, and
G1000 installations would have stopped. But instead, the majority of
Cessnas and Diamonds are being produced with them. You now have to
special order steam gauges on a 172. The G1000 is standard if I recall
correctly.

I haven't heard of G1000 "reboots" other than NWflyer. Could you
please site other examples?

As it happens, my computers are on UPS, so if the power fails, they
continue to run (at least for a while).

And the G1000 in the C172 has a backup battery to run it for 1/2
hour......

BTW- If either you or Gig 601XL want to continue this thread, we should
move it to a different title