Scary Icing ATC tape

On Sun, 4 Feb 2007 10:07:21 -0500, "mike regish"
wrote:


Even after regaining control, she did not switch to 121.5.




You only tune to 121.5 if you're not already talking to someone.

"Viperdoc" wrote:

I didn't hear her talk about boots, but only listened once. As I
recall, Caravans do not have boots, and are not certificated for
flight in known ice. This is also true because those big struts also
can pick up a lot of ice. Prop de ice may be electric.

Here is a discussion of the Caravan anti-ice system:

http://www.ainonline.com/Issues/03_0...vanicing_1.htm

Included in the above is:

"The aircraft’s anti-icing system includes operational leading-edge de-
ice boots on the wings and horizontal and vertical stabilizers, propeller
anti-ice boots, windshield anti-ice panel, heated pitot-static and stall-
warning systems, a standby electrical system, a wing ice-detection light
and an engine inertial separator."

TKS is an option.

A year ago, an AD was issued:

"Effective February 22, operators are required to install a pilot-assist
handle to allow inspection of the upper surface of the wing and de-icing
boots for the landing gear struts and cargo pod by June 27"

The only option for KI certification is through the installation of
TKS, which also protects the struts.

Boots are an acceptable alternative.

Also note that in the cited article, a Cessna spokesman said:

“There has never been a civilian airplane built that can withstand flight
into continuous known icing under moderate or severe conditions,” and
“it’s the pilot’s responsibility to recognize and exit those conditions.”

Was it just me, or was the controller excessively blase about the
Mayday call?



I thought so too, it wasn't clear he was offering much in the way of
attention to her situation, and I heard someone at the ATC laughing in
the background at one point. I think her decision to fly on after
regaining control (and composure) was preferrable to trying to land
immediately while still in shock.

IMOH, a lot of you guys really need to lighten up; and remember the
purpose for which the tape was released--to remind the pilots attending
Wings Seminars that: "ice is nasty stuff!"

The pilot did enough things right, under adverse conditions, to effect a
recovery--and the icing level was at high enough altitude to do so. It
worked, the pilot is more experienced as a result, and the real message is
to take predictions and reports of ice seriously--and inflate them as
necessary for the relative size of the aircraft.

That probably would have been the topic of this discussion if Anthony--a/k/a
mxsmanic--had not intervened. He was become a VERY effective Troll, as
evidenced by his ability to lead and occasionally to terminate discussion
threads--usually by starting a new conversation more to his liking.

As to the controller, he got other traffic through his sector and out of the
way--which I presume was his primary duty--and made appropriate suggestions.
Sounded good to me.

In summary, remember the purpose of the tape.

Let's all try to remember that old saying, occasionally attributed to Will
Rogers: "Be careful arguing with a fool, people might not be able to tell
the difference."

Peter

Mxsmanic wrote:

Owen Roberts writes:

That's good. You listened to a tape where nobody panicked and
therefore stayed alive.

She panicked for a time. If the ice hadn't started to melt (not
necessarily through any action of her own), she'd probably be dead.

Always nice to be an armchair pilot, isn't it?

The ice came off because the pilot turned on the boots. It did not melt.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
ups.com...
This is the audio tape of a Fed Ex Caravan pilot who tangled with some
severe icing conditions.

http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photoga...78L-Mayday.mp3

(It's a good-sized .mp3 file, so be patient while it downloads...)

This was given to me by our local FAA safety guy, to share with our
airport user's group. The stark terror in her voice is chilling, and
really points out how quickly things can go bad.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"


She was obviously stressed by thinking she was going to die, but maintained
aircraft control. I think she did good.

It sounds to me the controller missed her first Mayday calls, but turned
around and did a good job.

Danny Deger

She had things under control. She could have switched at talked at will to
ATC without the whole world listening in. Nearly half of that audio occurs
after she regained control.

mike

"B A R R Y" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 4 Feb 2007 10:07:21 -0500, "mike regish"
wrote:


Even after regaining control, she did not switch to 121.5.

Why should she? Staying where they were seemed to work fine for all
involved, and even generated a freezing level PIREP.

Why would you think she was not talkng on the correct frequency?

On 2/2/2007 11:23:08 PM, "Dan" wrote:

If a plane did that and I didn't have any idea why, I'd lean towards
getting it on the ground ASAP.

Back when this first happened, I talked about it with a chief flight
instructor who used to fly Caravans for a FedEx regional carrier. He told me
the pressure to complete cargo flights is great.

I suppose at some point, she must have realized that the ice was
coming off...

From what I recall, at 6,000 feet this pilot was in air that was above
freezing and also below the cloud layer.

--
Peter

Didn't say she wasn't.

mike


"Tony" wrote in message
oups.com...

Why would you think she was not talkng on the correct frequency?

On 2/2/2007 11:42:00 PM, "Jay Honeck" wrote:

I often receive "new" videos, submitted for inclusion on our video
webpage, that came straight from my site -- two years ago.

If you could do me a favor and credit LiveATC.net for the clip since that is
where the clip originated, I would appreciate it. As you may be aware,
LiveATC.net is a not-for-profit site made up of aviation and ATC fans and the
site could always use a good plug.

The botched Oshkosh arrival from the inept pilot clip also originated from
there, but I don't know if you have it on your site. That one, which is one I
compiled from archived ATC clips, also made its rounds on several websites
without any credit.




--
Peter