Visual coordination of turns revisited

Mxsmanic wrote:
I'm still in a bit of a quandry as to how to learn to make
coordinated turns in a PC simulator that does not include a motion
platform.

I've turned on the visual alignment indicator that MSFS provides,
which is a red "V" that sits squarely ahead in the visual field,
effectively bolted to the airframe. I've been trying to turn such
that this V always moves along the horizon at a constant speed for a
given bank angle. Logically, a specific bank angle in a coordinated
turn will always produce a heading change at the same speed. If the
speed at which the horizon is moving varies, the turn is not
coordinated.

Also, it seems that in a coordinated, level turn, this V should stay
at the same distance above the horizon throughout the turn.

As I roll into a turn, the speed of movement of the V along the
horizon should increase in precise relationship to the bank angle.
The opposite should occur as I roll out of the turn, with the speed
along the horizon slowing as I return to level flight.

Any problems with this? The only remaining problem is to figure out
_how_ fast the V should be moving for a given bank angle. Maybe that
can come with practice.

In the real world we don't have that little V superimposed on the wind
sheild. What we do have is that little dodad ball in most cases in the turn
coordinator. Keep that little ball so it looks like this

|O| and you will be in a coordinated turn.

If you want to know how to make that V do what you want you are going to
have to ask in a flight sim newsgroup.

Gig 601XL Builder writes:

In the real world we don't have that little V superimposed on the wind
sheild. What we do have is that little dodad ball in most cases in the turn
coordinator. Keep that little ball so it looks like this

|O| and you will be in a coordinated turn.

I know, but under VFR I'm supposed to be looking out the window, not staring
at the ball.

I found some Web pages on this; one of them suggests looking out the side of
the aircraft at the wing. If I'm in level flight, the extension of the wing
out the window points to the horizon, and it moves forward (very slowly,
depending on the distance of terrain). If I turn, however--and if the turn is
coordinated--it seems that the extension of the wing will point to a spot on
the ground that remains stationary. This spot is the center of my turn. The
steeper the turn, the closer this spot will be to my aircraft, but it will
always be aligned with the wing. If no spot above the wing is stationary in
the turn, the turn is uncoordinated.

Does that seem logical?

If you want to know how to make that V do what you want you are going to
have to ask in a flight sim newsgroup.

The pages I read suggest making a mark on the windshield for the purpose, with
a grease pencil or something. The sim provides a more perfect mark than one
can achieve in real life (because in real life one moves one's head, etc.),
but the same technique can be used in real life. The problem with it, though,
is that I'm not sure how fast the heading should be changing for a given
degree of bank, and it's not clear that there is a way to recognize this
intuitively.

Watching the extension of the wing out the side of the aircraft seems to work,
although it's more awkward. The page I read said you can fly the aircraft all
day by watching the wingtip, and this does indeed seem to be true, although I
suppose one would finish the day with a sore neck.

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Your model is wrong.


You might check with the sim group on how they do it.

On Feb 7, 6:24 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
Gig 601XL Builder writes:
In the real world we don't have that little V superimposed on the wind
sheild. What we do have is that little dodad ball in most cases in the turn
coordinator. Keep that little ball so it looks like this

|O| and you will be in a coordinated turn.

I know, but under VFR I'm supposed to be looking out the window, not staring
at the ball.

I found some Web pages on this; one of them suggests looking out the side of
the aircraft at the wing. If I'm in level flight, the extension of the wing
out the window points to the horizon, and it moves forward (very slowly,
depending on the distance of terrain). If I turn, however--and if the turn is
coordinated--it seems that the extension of the wing will point to a spot on
the ground that remains stationary. This spot is the center of my turn. The
steeper the turn, the closer this spot will be to my aircraft, but it will
always be aligned with the wing. If no spot above the wing is stationary in
the turn, the turn is uncoordinated.

Does that seem logical?

If you want to know how to make that V do what you want you are going to
have to ask in a flight sim newsgroup.

The pages I read suggest making a mark on the windshield for the purpose, with
a grease pencil or something. The sim provides a more perfect mark than one
can achieve in real life (because in real life one moves one's head, etc.),
but the same technique can be used in real life. The problem with it, though,
is that I'm not sure how fast the heading should be changing for a given
degree of bank, and it's not clear that there is a way to recognize this
intuitively.

Watching the extension of the wing out the side of the aircraft seems to work,
although it's more awkward. The page I read said you can fly the aircraft all
day by watching the wingtip, and this does indeed seem to be true, although I
suppose one would finish the day with a sore neck.

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Tony writes:

Your model is wrong.

What is wrong with the model?

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Look up the meaning of coordinated flight and the errors in your model
should be obvious.

On Feb 7, 6:54 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
Tony writes:
Your model is wrong.

What is wrong with the model?

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On Feb 8, 3:15 pm, "Tony" wrote:
Look up the meaning of coordinated flight and the errors in your model
should be obvious.

Aye??? What does that mean ???

Tony writes:

Look up the meaning of coordinated flight and the errors in your model
should be obvious.

In other words, there aren't any errors. Why did you claim otherwise?

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Mxsmanic wrote:
Tony writes:


Your model is wrong.


What is wrong with the model?


It's wrong.

Newps writes:

It's wrong.

That doesn't answer my question.

Do you really believe that a blanket assertion that it is "wrong," followed by
a refusal to explain why, would be credible to anyone seriously interested in
an answer? I suppose that technique might work on the school playground, but
it's not very useful in productive discussions.

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This might be a productive discussion in a sim group.



On Feb 8, 1:57 am, Mxsmanic wrote:
Newps writes:
It's wrong.

That doesn't answer my question.

Do you really believe that a blanket assertion that it is "wrong," followed by
a refusal to explain why, would be credible to anyone seriously interested in
an answer? I suppose that technique might work on the school playground, but
it's not very useful in productive discussions.

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