If user fees go into effect I'm done

scott moore wrote:
Ps. While I am offending everyone, if user fees begin, a good
start would be to close down the FSS system COMPLETELY, and fire all
of the employees.

The system is useless, redundant with more modern methods, and would
remove an entire line item from the FAA budget, leaving them less
to bitch about. Not to mention letting the FAA know we are serious
about reducing the size of the FAA.

For the most part, I agree.

About the only function of FSS that I use on a regular basis is flight
watch. I don't see any way to automate that. But, it certainly could be
centralized. I'm already talking to a person 100s of miles away; what
difference does it make where he's sitting? And what difference does it
make if he's sitting at a radio console in a building that says "FSS" on
the door or one that says "ATC" on the door?

Routine dissemination of weather information is better done by automated
methods. Likewise with filing of flight plans (VFR or IFR). Obtaining
clearances at uncontrolled airports via FSS is equally silly; they just act
as a telephone relay to ATT. The phone call could just as easily have been
switched to ATC directly.

Once in a while, I'll call FSS and ask for a phone briefing. Most commonly
these days, I'll do that on my cell phone in the car driving to the airport
because I was to busy to get a DUATS briefing before I left. While I'll
miss that convenience, I can't see any way I can justify the cost to the
federal government of having a person read me stuff on the phone that I
could have just as easily read myself on DUATS had I been a little more
organized or a little less lazy.

While I'll
miss that convenience, I can't see any way I can justify the cost to the
federal government of having a person read me stuff on the phone that I
could have just as easily read myself on DUATS had I been a little more
organized or a little less lazy.

Actually, I find an advantage to it. If you get NOTAMS, you will (by
yourself) be presented with reams of irrelevant stuff, but you don't
know what's irrelevant until you read through it. Ditto text weather at
fifteen stations near you, near your destination, enroute, etc. A
briefer who has seen all this stuff all day can sift through junk and
pick out the important pieces. That is valuable.

Jose
--
Humans are pack animals. Above all things, they have a deep need to
follow something, be it a leader, a creed, or a mob. Whosoever fully
understands this holds the world in his hands.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

In article ,
Jose wrote:

While I'll
miss that convenience, I can't see any way I can justify the cost to the
federal government of having a person read me stuff on the phone that I
could have just as easily read myself on DUATS had I been a little more
organized or a little less lazy.

Actually, I find an advantage to it. If you get NOTAMS, you will (by
yourself) be presented with reams of irrelevant stuff, but you don't
know what's irrelevant until you read through it. Ditto text weather at
fifteen stations near you, near your destination, enroute, etc. A
briefer who has seen all this stuff all day can sift through junk and
pick out the important pieces. That is valuable.

Jose

I've also had briefers filter out stuff that was important to me. I'd
rather look at it all and decide what's important and what's not.

A classic example happened to me about a year ago. I got a duats briefing
and saw that R-5206 was hot by notam. This is a small restricted area near
West Point, NY. It's maybe 15 miles from HPN.

I was flying with a student and asked him to brief me. He gave me a good
rundown on the weather, but omitted to tell me about R-5206. I asked him
how he got his information, and he said he called FSS. I made him do it
again. He came back and said I was wrong, R-5206 was not hot. So, we
called FSS a third time and put it on speaker. My student asked for a
briefing for a 25 mile radius of HPN, and sure enough, the briefer said
nothing about R-5206. I then explicitly asked him about it, and he said
that it was indeed hot. So, what's going on here?

It turns out that R-5206 gets it's notams filed under IGN, which itself is
more than 25 miles from HPN. So, it didn't come up in the briefers 25 mile
filter. I just routinely ask duats for a 50 mile radius, so it comes up.

With DUATS, I know how to ask for exactly what I want, and how to filter
it. With a human briefer, I have to rely on the judgement of somebody I've
never met to pick and choose, and sometimes I have to play 20 questions
with him. I'll take the computer any day.

Why briefers think I care about an unlit crane 240 feet AGL 4 miles from
the runway, on a day VFR flight, I have no idea.

Roy Smith wrote in
:

With DUATS, I know how to ask for exactly what I want, and how to filter
it. With a human briefer, I have to rely on the judgement of somebody
I've never met to pick and choose, and sometimes I have to play 20
questions with him. I'll take the computer any day.

Why briefers think I care about an unlit crane 240 feet AGL 4 miles from
the runway, on a day VFR flight, I have no idea.

In today's world, an Interactive Voice Response (IVR) system could replace
the briefers, and you could still call for weather from your car. Instead
of talking to a briefer, you could dial or talk to the voice response
system and get appropriate responses. A small amount of additional
categorization of things like NOTAMS would also improve this issue and
wouldn't really take much.

For example, if they know my aircraft type is a BE35/R and I'm planned for
7000', why do they give me NOTAMS about STARs and DPs that are only
authorized for Jets or for flights planned for FL180 or higher? The answer,
obviously, is that these criteria are listed as "notes" printed on the
page, instead of in fields in the system. If they were fields in the
system, NOTAMs could be filtered better automatically, and the human factor
in weather briefing would be less critical...

But if they password protect it, I won't do it.
"Big Boy." "BIG BOY!"

Judah wrote:
In today's world, an Interactive Voice Response (IVR) system could replace
the briefers, and you could still call for weather from your car. Instead
of talking to a briefer, you could dial or talk to the voice response
system and get appropriate responses.

Having dealt with quite a few of the various voice response systems over
the years, I would have to say that such a system would pretty much
ensure that I never called for a briefing again... When you have the
repeat the same damn think 10 times and the ****in' system *still*
doesn't recognize what you're trying to say, they're basically ****in'
useless... The menu systems that require touchtone responses are quite a
bit better since they are working with fairly discrete responses that
all phones need to be able to generate in order to even dial a number...

Grumman-581 wrote in
:

Having dealt with quite a few of the various voice response systems over
the years, I would have to say that such a system would pretty much
ensure that I never called for a briefing again... When you have the
repeat the same damn think 10 times and the ****in' system *still*
doesn't recognize what you're trying to say, they're basically ****in'
useless... The menu systems that require touchtone responses are quite a
bit better since they are working with fairly discrete responses that
all phones need to be able to generate in order to even dial a number...

I agree with you - the system should use touch-tone dialing for selection.
IVR as a category predates the voice recognition capability that exists
today. It implies responses by callers to voice prompts, not necessarily
voice responses, though.

My biggest problem with the ones that try to do voice recognition is that
they only seem to work if there is absolutely no background noise, which is
unrealistic to happen in a car or plane (or even at home with the kids)...

That being said, our FSS currently offers callers the ability to hear any
of about 2 dozen weather reports for popular routes and areas. It also
allows callers to file a flight plan as a recording.

I believe the evolution of the system is to voice prompts that allow you to
easily get you the information you need, along with a small group of
national customer support reps who help people who are having trouble from
a single location.

Have I missed the wisecracks about outsourcing briefings to Bangalore?

Don

I agree with you - the system should use touch-tone dialing for selection.

That's the least of it. I find the robots way too chatty.

"Thank you for calling the New England Flight Service Station, one of
twelve FAA superstations covering the country. We hope you are having a
good day, and are eagerly waiting to help you file your flight plan,
plan your flight, get weather briefings, and find out about TFRs and
other flight restrictions. Lets get going! To begin with, I'll have to
ask you a few questions. Are you calling from your home phone number as
registered with the FAA? You can say yes, no, or I don't know. Or, you
can use the touch tone keypad. For yes, press nine, or "y". For no,
press six, or "n". If you don't know whether this number is registesred
with the FAA as your primary phone number, press 4, or "i".

(tweep)

Thank you for your response. You have indicated that this is your home
phone. Remember, to go back, at any time, you can say "go back", or you
can press the two key, or "b". (wakawakawaka) I've located your
record. I see you usually fly a cessna cardinal, November three four
seven Lima Charlie. Is this the aircraft you will be using today? You
can You can say yes, or no. Or, you can use the touch tone keypad. For
yes, press nine, or "y". For no, press six, or "n".

(tweep)

Thank you for your response. I'm so happy to help you. Now, would you
like a weather briefing? If so, press the nine key (or "w"). IF you
would just like to hear about TFRs, press the eight key, or "t". If
you would.......

(click)

Jose
--
Humans are pack animals. Above all things, they have a deep need to
follow something, be it a leader, a creed, or a mob. Whosoever fully
understands this holds the world in his hands.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose writes:

Actually, I find an advantage to it. If you get NOTAMS, you will (by
yourself) be presented with reams of irrelevant stuff, but you don't
know what's irrelevant until you read through it. Ditto text weather at
fifteen stations near you, near your destination, enroute, etc. A
briefer who has seen all this stuff all day can sift through junk and
pick out the important pieces. That is valuable.

Unfortunately, if he does it wrong, you cannot prove that he made a mistake
later.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...

About the only function of FSS that I use on a regular basis is flight
watch. I don't see any way to automate that.

I haven't used Flight Watch in 3-4 years, since I got XM Wx in my airplane.
So it is automated that way. However, if that equipment breaks.....