If user fees go into effect I'm done

Mxsmanic wrote:



Not extraordinarily wealthy, but much more wealthy than average, especially if
they fly more than a few hours per year.


Why should people who are much more wealthy than average expect their
elisted hobby to be funded by the taxes of the struggling masses?

Sam Spade wrote:

Why should people who are much more wealthy than average expect their
elisted hobby to be funded by the taxes of the struggling masses?

The "hobby" flying that people, including the wealthy, do adds so little to
the cost of maintaining the national airspace system that it is hardly worth
mentioning. The things that get money spent on them like airports are
helping the struggling masses by supporting businesses that create jobs.

"Wolfgang Schwanke" wrote in message
...
"Matt Barrow" wrote in news:22pzh.2865$Ys.1640
@newsfe10.phx:

Privatisation of government tasks is part of neoliberal ideology,

What does the EU see as the proper function of government?

In _classical liberal_ thought, the role of government was police on
the local level, courts of law, and a military.

Misunderstanding. "Neoliberal" is a swear word for Thaterite
monetarism, mostly used by its opponents such as myself; probably
European usage. It has little in common with classical liberalism
anyway.

The EU is basically a contract between the then-EC governments made in
1992, in which they agreed to remove all trade barriers between each
other, to replace all national currencies with a common one and several
other measures. This created a unified market for goods, workforce,
money.

I describe this policy as "neoliberal" because they failed to create a
unified welfare system and common tax system at the same time, which
they could have easily done. This failure creates a pressure on the
member nations to outcompete each other by reducing taxes and cutting
the welfare systems down. This tends to weaken the position ov national
governments and leaves the majority of the population out in the cold.
Of course those are exactly the goals of neoliberalism, but they are
disastrous.

Disclaimer: I'm all in favour of the nations of Europe cooperating, of
extending the community to new member states especially from the east,
of helping them build up their economies to western levels, for free
travel and all that. But this is not the way to do it.

You didn't expend one word answering my question.

I did, though, get a good view of why Europe is sinking.

Sam Spade writes:

Why should people who are much more wealthy than average expect their
elisted hobby to be funded by the taxes of the struggling masses?

I don't know; why?

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Gig 601XL Builder writes:

The "hobby" flying that people, including the wealthy, do adds so little to
the cost of maintaining the national airspace system that it is hardly worth
mentioning. The things that get money spent on them like airports are
helping the struggling masses by supporting businesses that create jobs.

I strongly suspect that GA is more of a burden than an asset for the
population and society at large. Commercial air travel is a necessity;
general aviation is not.

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ktbr writes:

True enough... Perhaps there should be a merit based approach to
voting to allow for cancelling out the ignorant. Sort of allow
for Darwin's theory to have its productive influence on govenrment,
instead of the reverse effect as is now the case.

Literacy tests came close to that. But then someone observed that people
deprived of an education would necessarily fail such tests, and they went
away.

Of course, one could argue that anyone who hasn't received a decent education
isn't qualified to vote, irrespective of _why_ he hasn't received an
education, but that is politically incorrect.

Even today, with 1/3 of the U.S. population illiterate, there aren't too many
people who are qualified to vote, even though most of them are allowed to
vote.

Service in the military - you get an additional vote.
Graduate from college - get an additional vote.
For each $10,000 in taxes you paid - get an additional vote.
For each child you raised who becomes a productive citizen
you get an additional vote.

All of these are subject to abuse, unfortunately.

You should also be able to lose a vote for things such
as being a convicted Felon ...

That is already the case.

In this way people would be more vested in their country and have
incentives to work hard, make good decisions. I believe you would
still need term limits however.

Yes.

My idea would be to draft people into elections. Instead of letting anyone
who wants to run enter the election, you'd choose people based on some sort of
objective criteria and then draft them into the election (they'd have the
option of declining). Then the candidates would all be qualified, rather than
simply ambitious and self-centered.

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Gig 601XL Builder writes:

Yes, I'd be willing bet all of us do. Though the other two options, no
insurance or a state run program, are also not my idea of great ideas
either.

So what's the solution?

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Mxsmanic wrote:

I strongly suspect that GA is more of a burden than an asset for the
population and society at large. Commercial air travel is a necessity;
general aviation is not.

Well, if you are going to make a statement like that then you can
also say that commercial air travel isn't really "necessary".

The only "necessary" things in life are food air and water and a
dry place to sleep. If you want more than that, and/or things
at a lower cost then lots of other things are necessary... including
general aviation.

Of course we are really only talking about free societies that
encourage business and priviate property rights. Anything else is
the old Soviet Union, in one form or another.

Mxsmanic wrote:

Of course, one could argue that anyone who hasn't received a decent education
isn't qualified to vote, irrespective of _why_ he hasn't received an
education, but that is politically incorrect.

That is precisely what I am arguing. In this country education up
to the 12th grade is paid for by taxpayers (whether they have children
or not). There is no excuse why someone should squander their
chance at an education through HS... and if you do well there are
scholarships through college.

Even today, with 1/3 of the U.S. population illiterate, there aren't too many
people who are qualified to vote, even though most of them are allowed to
vote.

Exactly my point.


All of these are subject to abuse, unfortunately.


You think so? give me an example then. I doubt its any easier
to abuse than the current welfare system.... or even the
current politcal system where politicians buy votes from
the ignoreant by promising them more "stuff"...

You should also be able to lose a vote for things such
as being a convicted Felon ...


That is already the case.

Only in some states... and lots of politicians want to put an end
to that, including Hillary Clinton I believe (at one time anyway).


My idea would be to draft people into elections. Instead of letting anyone
who wants to run enter the election, you'd choose people based on some sort of
objective criteria and then draft them into the election (they'd have the
option of declining). Then the candidates would all be qualified, rather than
simply ambitious and self-centered.


If Washington was actually reformed (all the old farts kicked OUT) and
term limits in place it might be necesary to "draft" some people.
Heheh.. I really like the sound of that.... sort of like jury duty.

My idea would be to draft people into elections. Instead of letting anyone
who wants to run enter the election, you'd choose people based on some sort of
objective criteria and then draft them into the election (they'd have the
option of declining). Then the candidates would all be qualified, rather than
simply ambitious and self-centered.

That's how the electoral college was supposed to work. It didn't take
long for that to develop... flaws.

Jose
--
Humans are pack animals. Above all things, they have a deep need to
follow something, be it a leader, a creed, or a mob. Whosoever fully
understands this holds the world in his hands.
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