If user fees go into effect I'm done

scott moore writes:

And despite the fact that we use a resource that is virtually free and
has unlimited capacity (airspace) there is always someone who thinks
that we shouldn't have it, because they can't have it.

In the case of GA, it's more a matter of people who think you shouldn't have
it because they don't see any reason for it--they don't want it. If the loss
of GA is nothing to them, they figure it's nothing to you, and if they
outnumber you, you lose.

If you cannot understand the viewpoint of the public at large, you can only
damage your own interests by making a fuss.

Don't worry, I'm sure you'll get your way someday.

To whom are you addressing this?

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In article ,
scott moore wrote:

GA is a gnat on the publics rear end.

except in part of the US, like Alaska.

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

I strongly suspect that GA is more of a burden than an asset for the
population and society at large. Commercial air travel is a necessity;
general aviation is not.


Your statement is equivalent to saying that commercial land vehicles (cars
& trucks) are a necessity, but private ones are not. The only difference is
that fewer pilots fly privately than drivers who drive privately.

But what you don't recognize is that GA is necessary to maintain the
infastructure of the commercial airlines. For example, FBOs in many small
airports would not be able to support themselves or their employees without
the income produced from servicing and storing these private aircraft. At
my airport, the GA ramp has hundreds of planes each paying several hundred
dollars a month just for a tie down. They also provide fuel for these
aircraft, and have a crew that lays out the

They also handle service for a small number of GA fractional jet share
clients, and do overnight service and storing of a small number of Airline
jets. However, I doubt they could support their current structure just on
the fees associated with fueling up some NetJets and towing Dash-8's for
United to a hangar.

More importantly, though, without the GA system, there would be limited
opportunities for people to build the required experience to become a safe
commercial aviator. There would probably also be a reduced lack of
interest.

So perhaps you have not observed the full extent of the picture, and have
made a judgement based on incomplete or innacurate theories...

Judah writes:

Your statement is equivalent to saying that commercial land vehicles (cars
& trucks) are a necessity, but private ones are not.

No, it's not even remotely close to that.

The only difference is that fewer pilots fly privately than drivers
who drive privately.

That difference is huge: there are about 400 licensed drivers for every
licensed pilot, and while licensed drivers tend to drive fairly regularly,
licensed pilots do not (it's just too expensive, usually). In fact, private
pilots spend more time in a car driving to and from the airfield than they
spend in the air, in many cases.

Many people drive cars because they have to. They can't hold a job without a
car. It's hard to find any situations in which this is true for general
aviation and private pilots.

But what you don't recognize is that GA is necessary to maintain the
infastructure of the commercial airlines. For example, FBOs in many small
airports would not be able to support themselves or their employees without
the income produced from servicing and storing these private aircraft. At
my airport, the GA ramp has hundreds of planes each paying several hundred
dollars a month just for a tie down. They also provide fuel for these
aircraft, and have a crew that lays out the

They also handle service for a small number of GA fractional jet share
clients, and do overnight service and storing of a small number of Airline
jets. However, I doubt they could support their current structure just on
the fees associated with fueling up some NetJets and towing Dash-8's for
United to a hangar.

A lot of airports would simply disappear without GA, as they would no longer
serve any purpose. The airlines don't need them.

More importantly, though, without the GA system, there would be limited
opportunities for people to build the required experience to become a safe
commercial aviator. There would probably also be a reduced lack of
interest.

Commercial aviators can be trained from scratch in simulators; small aircraft
are only used because current regulations require it, but regulations can be
changed.

So perhaps you have not observed the full extent of the picture, and have
made a judgement based on incomplete or innacurate theories...

No, I've seen the picture objectively, and not through the rose-colored
goggles worn by many pilots. The fact is, general aviation by private pilots
could disappear in a puff of smoke tomorrow, and it would have no effect at
all on society at large.

It's important to keep this in mind when trying to influence or shape public
policy with respect to GA. The vast majority of the population cares nothing
about your flying, and would not miss it if it were gone; so if you want to
persuade that population, you need a method that doesn't depend on the
subjective appeal of flying an aircraft (which doesn't exist for most people).
Indeed, if you concentrate too much on this aspect, you may alienate the
majority, and you definitely don't want to do that.

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Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Judah writes:

Your statement is equivalent to saying that commercial land vehicles
(cars & trucks) are a necessity, but private ones are not.

No, it's not even remotely close to that.

I think it is exactly the same, except replace the word "land" with "air".

A lot of airports would simply disappear without GA, as they would no
longer serve any purpose. The airlines don't need them.

Your definition of GA is inconsistent. Here you say GA is anything but
airlines. Before you said GA is anything that is not commercial.

Commercial aviators can be trained from scratch in simulators; small
aircraft are only used because current regulations require it, but
regulations can be changed.

I don't think that is practical. How many hours of training are required to
learn to fly safely in a simulator? The pilot wouldn't even understand the
behavior or proper use of Trim without any actual flight time. This is
safe?

No, I've seen the picture objectively, and not through the rose-colored
goggles worn by many pilots. The fact is, general aviation by private
pilots could disappear in a puff of smoke tomorrow, and it would have no
effect at all on society at large.

Your goggles are equally as colored as mine, if not moreso.

It's important to keep this in mind when trying to influence or shape
public policy with respect to GA. The vast majority of the population
cares nothing about your flying, and would not miss it if it were gone;
so if you want to persuade that population, you need a method that
doesn't depend on the subjective appeal of flying an aircraft (which
doesn't exist for most people). Indeed, if you concentrate too much on
this aspect, you may alienate the majority, and you definitely don't
want to do that.

I'm not shaping public policy.

Judah writes:

Your definition of GA is inconsistent. Here you say GA is anything but
airlines. Before you said GA is anything that is not commercial.

Call it commercial and non-commercial, then.

I don't think that is practical. How many hours of training are required to
learn to fly safely in a simulator?

Fewer than the number required in a real aircraft, mainly because a simulator
can simulate all sorts of things that are impractical, expensive, or truly
dangerous in a real aircraft.

The pilot wouldn't even understand the behavior or proper use of Trim
without any actual flight time.

Sure he would. The simulator works just like the real aircraft.

This is safe?

Absolutely. And much cheaper than using real aircraft. That's why it is so
attractive for training. Only regulatory barriers prevent it from being done
in the U.S.

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Sam Spade writes:

Why should people who are much more wealthy than average expect their
elisted hobby to be funded by the taxes of the struggling masses?

I don't know; why?

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