Iowa Aviation Weather...en Espanol

"Hamish Reid" wrote

None of that really answers the question: in what sense is Spanish a
foreign language in the US? As several people have pointed out, it
predates English in these parts by a long way, and has been spoken
continuously 'round here by immigrants and native-born citizens alike
for all of that time.

Now you are being silly. English is the official language in the US, and is
the only language of record. That says it all.

Now, it those who refuse to speak it want to sit back in the corner and be
quiet, fine with me.
--
Jim in NC

Morgans wrote:

Now you are being silly. English is the official language in the US, and
is the only language of record. That says it all.

hmm, care to quote the chapter and verse of the relevant CFR where this
is stated? (you can get all the CFRs, not just 14, he gpoaccess.gov
-- ok, there is something about it in 8 CFR, but that's about
naturalization; frankly I haven't read all of them, so you might very
well be right); I don't see it in the constitution however.

as for the 'only language of record', have a look at your US passport
if you have one, and tell us what language or languages it is written
in?

--Sylvain

Sylvain writes:

as for the 'only language of record', have a look at your US passport
if you have one, and tell us what language or languages it is written
in?

Passports are specifically intended for use abroad. Mine is in English and
French.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 23:04:54 -0800, Sylvain wrote:

as for the 'only language of record', have a look at your US passport
if you have one, and tell us what language or languages it is written
in?

To be fair, U.S. passports are not written for Americans to read.
Their polyglot text, intended for the eyes of foreign officials and
police, is a tacit recognition of the concept of native languages.

Don

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 22:31:47 -0800, Morgans wrote
(in article ):


"Hamish Reid" wrote

None of that really answers the question: in what sense is Spanish a
foreign language in the US? As several people have pointed out, it
predates English in these parts by a long way, and has been spoken
continuously 'round here by immigrants and native-born citizens alike
for all of that time.

Now you are being silly. English is the official language in the US, and is
the only language of record. That says it all.

There is no official language in the US. Anyone who says that there is is
ignorant of American history, American law, and American values.

Saints preserve us from becoming like the French, arguing endlessly about
whether every word is sufficiently pure enough to be used in both daily and
official discourse.

Now then, I know of places, I have been to places, where they speak English,
have for generations, and you would barely understand a word they say.
English is now the dominant language of the world. There are more people who
speak English as a second language than those who learned it as their primary
language. But that English has many forms. There is no international or even
national body that can decide what is 'proper' English.

If you want to make English an official language, you then have to decide
which English is the official form. And then you get into arguing about
whether words like "turkey" are English or not. Some knothead will decide
that you cannot eat "beef" because that is French; you have to eat "cow." You
cannot drive an "auto" because that is German. And "cars" are too French. So
they will make up some purely English word. You allow some board of academics
to decide that their politically correct version of English is preferable to
the sexist, racist, patriarchal, oppressive, obnoxious English that you
speak. And there will be endless litigation over whether some contract was
actually written in English. Do you want that? Because I can guarantee you,
all those countries that do have an official language have those things.

--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

In article ,
"Morgans" wrote:

"Hamish Reid" wrote

None of that really answers the question: in what sense is Spanish a
foreign language in the US? As several people have pointed out, it
predates English in these parts by a long way, and has been spoken
continuously 'round here by immigrants and native-born citizens alike
for all of that time.

Now you are being silly. English is the official language in the US, and is
the only language of record. That says it all.

Now, it those who refuse to speak it want to sit back in the corner and be
quiet, fine with me.

So, once again, what makes Spanish a "foreign language" in the US? I'm
guessing that for you the phrase "foreign language" means something like
"non-official language", or "non-dominant language", or "language I
don't speak", or "language some foreigners use", rather than what the
phrase might mean to many of the rest of us, something like "a language
not spoken by the indigenous peoples of a certain area" (to steal a
definition from somewhere else)?

Your definition is, almost by definition, a little odd don't you think?

Hamish (for whom American English is definitely foreign :-))

Hamish (for whom American English is definitely foreign :-))

So, let me get this straight:

You're saying that Spanish is *not* a foreign language in the United
States, simply because a large portion of people here are originally
from Spanish-speaking countries?

By that definition, German is not a foreign language in Iowa and
Wisconsin. Neither is Italian. Or Irish.

Or have you come up with some intellectually gymnastic limitation on
your theory, like "it's only not a foreign language if the speakers
have not been here more than 'x' generations..."?

Honestly, you guys are hilarious!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Feb 14, 10:46 am, "Jay Honeck" wrote:
Hamish (for whom American English is definitely foreign :-))

So, let me get this straight:

You're saying that Spanish is *not* a foreign language in the United
States, simply because a large portion of people here are originally
from Spanish-speaking countries?

By that definition, German is not a foreign language in Iowa and
Wisconsin. Neither is Italian. Or Irish.

Or have you come up with some intellectually gymnastic limitation on
your theory, like "it's only not a foreign language if the speakers
have not been here more than 'x' generations..."?

Honestly, you guys are hilarious!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

and russian is still a foreign language in parts of NYC, Philly,
Chicago, etc. (you may get more done in brooklyn speaking russian than
english, but nobody is trying to have everything in russian...)

In article om,
"Jay Honeck" wrote:

Hamish (for whom American English is definitely foreign :-))

So, let me get this straight:

You're saying that Spanish is *not* a foreign language in the United
States, simply because a large portion of people here are originally
from Spanish-speaking countries?

I'm not saying anything of the sort (forgive me for asking, but is
English is a foreign language for you? That might explain a few things
about this exchange...).

Let's review your stance. You've said that one of the indigenous native
languages of the United States -- Lakota -- is a foreign language in the
US. You've claimed that Spanish, the native (first, and, in some cases,
only) language for millions of natural-born citizens in this country, a
language whose native use predates that of English in large parts of the
US, and whose history in many parts of this country as a first language
is long and unbroken, is a foreign language in the US.

So what *do* you mean by "foreign language"? Do you mean "not the
official language"? If so, why not say so (while keeping in mind that
the US doesn't have an official language in the same sense that, say,
France does, or the Soviet Union did)? Do you mean "language spoken by
foreigners or immigrants?" If so, why not say so (while bearing in mind
that I'm both a foreigner and an immigrant here, and since English is my
native language, by those rules that would make English a foreign
language here...)? Do you mean "dominant language"? If so, why not say
so (but does that mean you believe that Scots Gaelic is a foreign
language in the United Kingdom, or that the hundreds of Aboriginal
languages in Australia are foreign languages there)?

As a native English speaker and a long-time resident of the United
States, your usage baffles me -- maybe you can spell out precisely what
makes a language "foreign" in your mind, and how your definition
compares to more traditional, conservative definitions that talk in
terms of (for example) languages not spoken by the indigenous people of
a certain place.


By that definition, German is not a foreign language in Iowa and
Wisconsin. Neither is Italian. Or Irish.

If you say so (I certainly haven't said so).

Or have you come up with some intellectually gymnastic limitation on
your theory, like "it's only not a foreign language if the speakers
have not been here more than 'x' generations..."?

The gymnastics seem to be yours -- but again, before I get too impolite
about your reading skills, is English perhaps a foreign language for
you? That might excuse your strawman argument in the paragraph
immediately above.


Honestly, you guys are hilarious!

Well, I wouldn't laugh too hard -- the joke seems to be on the person
who believes that a country's indigenous languages are somehow foreign
in that country...

Hamish

So what *do* you mean by "foreign language"?

My apologies. You have gone to extreme lengths to explain your
ignorance of the situation, thanks. I didn't realize that the concept
of a "foreign language" needed to be defined, but here goes:

A "foreign language" in the context of the United States of America
(and in the context of this discussion) is a language that is not
spoken by the majority of people since the country's inception.

Since every major founding document, every major newspaper, and (to
bring this discussion into the 21st century) every major American
website was/is published in English, we consider every language other
than English to be "foreign".

For further clarification, please refer to the definition of the word
"foreign", available in any of the free on-line dictionaries.

Your example of such indigenous languages as Lakota and Spanish are
not relevant to this discussion, as they pre-date the creation of the
United States. They were never considered to be official languages of
the United States, and may therefore be defined as "foreign", both in
fact and in the context of this discussion.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"