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I think what Jay says makes a lot of sense.

The essence of America was that its immigrant population willingly abandoned
many or most aspects of the culture it left. My great grandmother told me
the story many times about her first weeks in this country. She went to
school, but couldn't speak a word of English. For a while every day, the
teacher had her stand on a desk and sing songs in German. There were no
translators, interpreters or bilingual instructors. She learned English,
and spoke it for the next 90 years. Was she proud of the culture she left?
of course. But this was her home now, and her heart and allegiance belonged
to this country from the day she stepped off the boat. THAT is what is
missing with today's immigrants, and that's why there is some resentment.

Like me, most Americans have close ties to immigrants, whether is is this
generation, or one recently past. But in my family, I never heard the
outright hatred for American culture and values that I hear from some of
today's immigrants. Laws compelling bilingualism will increase the divide
between the groups, and increase the hostility.


"C J Campbell" wrote in message
e.com...
On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 08:04:32 -0800, Jay Honeck wrote
(in article .com):

Well, not really. I think they have always spoken Spanish in Puerto
Rico.
New
Mexico had a bilingual law in their original constitution. Come on, Jay.
This
is KKK stuff you're spouting. And I know you don't believe in that.

Is this some new variation on the "Hitler Rule"?

Once you start accusing someone of belonging to the KKK, the
opportunity for intelligent discussion is over.

Now, Jay, read it again. I did not say that you were a member of the KKK;
I
think you would be one of the last guys on earth to associate with that
crowd. That is why I am surprised at some of the stuff you have been
saying.

--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

Recently, Sylvain posted:

ktbr wrote:

I don't believe it is any good for freedom either. It makes things
more complicated and increases the requirements for more government.

you probably think this way for having grown up in a mostly
unilingual society and cannot comprehend that things can work
just fine otherwise; I grew up in a country of fewer than 6 million
people; yet manages to have 4 national languages (3 of which have
official status, i.e., used for all official documents -- the
fourth, spoken by fewer than a few tens of thousands counts five
main dialects, and the main official language counts more dialects
than one might care to count, but I digress :-) -- and this, without
counting broken-english has its fifth neither national nor official
yet widely used language. Furthermore, it is one of the most
cosmopolitan country there is, with a very high proportion of
(exotic languages speaking) foreigners. And you know what? it has
been working just fine this way for longer than USA has been in
existence. And there are quite a few other countries like that with
more than one official languages actually. Surely if tiny countries
can pull this off, USA might
have a shot at it too?

One might dream that such might be true, but it is highly unlikely. One
can't have an attitude of priveledge if one wants to meaningfully
communicate with others. Unfortunately, I think it may take generations
for most U.S. citizens to understand this.

Neil

LWG wrote:
I think what Jay says makes a lot of sense.

The essence of America was that its immigrant population willingly abandoned
many or most aspects of the culture it left. My great grandmother told me
the story many times about her first weeks in this country. She went to
school, but couldn't speak a word of English. For a while every day, the
teacher had her stand on a desk and sing songs in German. There were no
translators, interpreters or bilingual instructors. She learned English,
and spoke it for the next 90 years. Was she proud of the culture she left?
of course. But this was her home now, and her heart and allegiance belonged
to this country from the day she stepped off the boat. THAT is what is
missing with today's immigrants, and that's why there is some resentment.


Exactly sir. And we have brought this upon ourselves by lowering
standards, refusing to protect our borders (perish the thought if we
might offend someone) or even firmly and proudly defending American
values and sovereinty! To add insult to injury we have certain so
called 'leaders' out there bashing the country here and overseas.

The illegal immigrants that are here evidently have such disdain for the
United States that they openly make demands for amnesty all the while
expecting to receive all of the benefits provided by hardworking
taxpayers of this country and with no prejudice whatsoever.

"LWG" wrote

The essence of America was that its immigrant population willingly
abandoned many or most aspects of the culture it left. My great
grandmother told me the story many times about her first weeks in this
country. She went to school, but couldn't speak a word of English. For a
while every day, the teacher had her stand on a desk and sing songs in
German. There were no translators, interpreters or bilingual instructors.
She learned English, and spoke it for the next 90 years. Was she proud of
the culture she left? of course. But this was her home now, and her heart
and allegiance belonged to this country from the day she stepped off the
boat. THAT is what is missing with today's immigrants, and that's why
there is some resentment.

Well said.

As a country united with common language and values, we thrive.

Divided, we fall.
--
Jim in NC

Matt Whiting wrote:

that said, the level of competency required in English as well as the
questions on history/civics were quite disappointing (I had
prepared for much harder stuff); keep in mind though that
very few natural born and US public school educated citizen would be
unable to pass that test.


Yes, that is the ultimate irony.


Something obtained too cheaply or with little effort is little valued.

Three pages of instructions that take 30 pages to print in 10 different languages.

We already have that. No wait - that's legalese - the official language
of Congress.

Jose
--
Humans are pack animals. Above all things, they have a deep need to
follow something, be it a leader, a creed, or a mob. Whosoever fully
understands this holds the world in his hands.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

ktbr wrote:



The illegal immigrants that are here evidently have such disdain for
the United States that they openly make demands for amnesty all the
while expecting to receive all of the benefits provided by hardworking
taxpayers of this country and with no prejudice whatsoever.

Just for the record you do realize that MANY illegals pay taxes in the US
don't you. I don't think anyone would say they don't work hard. If they
didn't they wouldn't be in such demand.

But in my family, I never heard the
outright hatred for American culture and values that I hear from some of
today's immigrants.

Perhaps America's culture and values have changed?

Jose
--
Humans are pack animals. Above all things, they have a deep need to
follow something, be it a leader, a creed, or a mob. Whosoever fully
understands this holds the world in his hands.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:

Just for the record you do realize that MANY illegals pay taxes in the US
don't you. I don't think anyone would say they don't work hard. If they
didn't they wouldn't be in such demand.



Where did I say illegals do not work hard? Stop being juvenile and
changing the focus of the matter in discussion. Of course most illegals
work hard, after all, they are here taking advantage of the
opportunities available for those who work hard.

They pay taxes where they have to but they avoid it whenever they can,
after all, they are not invested in this country in any way. A lot of
money is sent back to Mexico in the end. Do they think anything of the
consequenses they may have caused to a person from whom they may have
stolen an identity? After all, they disregarded any laws when they came
here so why should they start being concerned with them now?

What about insurance, or even a drivers license? Why worry when you are
here illegally the worst that can happen is you get sent back.

The probelm is, as always in such cases, is that when your life in this
country starts out with deception what real impetus is there to change
that? The answer is none.

Jose wrote:
But in my family, I never heard the outright hatred for American
culture and values that I hear from some of today's immigrants.


Perhaps America's culture and values have changed?


If that is true, please think real hard and answer the question
yourself. If you can true be objective and analytical you will come up
with a fairly logical answer.