Low fuel emergency in DFW

It isn't just the traffic ON the runway, but the traffic in
the air within many miles that has to go somewhere.



"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in
message
nk.net...
|
| "Nils Rostedt"
wrote in message
| ...
|
| One guesstimation regarding how quickly a runway can be
cleared for a
| landing in the opposite direction. It's not uncommon to
have three
| airplanes on the departure runway - one accelerating,
one taxiing into
| position at the end and another (the next for take-off)
taxiing into
| position at an intersection. Allow 1 minute for the
take-off run and
| another for initial climbout. As for the other two
airplanes, behind them
| is typically the departure queue blocking the quickest
exit, so they will
| need to taxi on the runway to the next free exit before
vacating the
| runway. That probably takes the same 2 minutes. So 2
minutes minimum. Then
| consider the wake turbulence, if it was a heavy taking
off - do you really
| want to land into the wake? That might cause an
emergency all by itself.
| Just my $0.02.
|
|
| So there'd be no hurry then.
|
|
|

"Jim Macklin" writes:

It isn't just the traffic ON the runway, but the traffic in
the air within many miles that has to go somewhere.

It takes only a few seconds to divert it.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
...
It isn't just the traffic ON the runway, but the traffic in
the air within many miles that has to go somewher

They don't have to go far. One minute after a 10 degree heading they would
be out of the way.

Danny Deger

I don't think you understand the complexity of the airspace
around DFW, with arrival gates, departure corridors,
multiple runways.

It is not a 1 minute or a two minute exercise to "clear the
airspace" neither does a 10° heading change create legal
separation in one minute.


"Danny Deger" wrote in message
...
|
| "Jim Macklin" wrote
in message
| ...
| It isn't just the traffic ON the runway, but the traffic
in
| the air within many miles that has to go somewher
|
| They don't have to go far. One minute after a 10 degree
heading they would
| be out of the way.
|
| Danny Deger
|
|
|

neither does a 10° heading change create legal
separation in one minute.

Legal separation is nice, but in an emergency, I'll settle for anything
that doesn't bend metal.

Jose
--
Humans are pack animals. Above all things, they have a deep need to
follow something, be it a leader, a creed, or a mob. Whosoever fully
understands this holds the world in his hands.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

That is not an option for all the other airplanes or ATC.



"Jose" wrote in message
...
| neither does a 10° heading change create legal
| separation in one minute.
|
| Legal separation is nice, but in an emergency, I'll settle
for anything
| that doesn't bend metal.
|
| Jose
| --
| Humans are pack animals. Above all things, they have a
deep need to
| follow something, be it a leader, a creed, or a mob.
Whosoever fully
| understands this holds the world in his hands.
| for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

That is not an option for all the other airplanes or ATC.

Yes it it.

Jose
--
Humans are pack animals. Above all things, they have a deep need to
follow something, be it a leader, a creed, or a mob. Whosoever fully
understands this holds the world in his hands.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Which law, rule or regulation allows near mid-air collisions
because one aircraft has a cob up their ass?




"Jose" wrote in message
. ..
| That is not an option for all the other airplanes or ATC.
|
| Yes it it.
|
| Jose
| --
| Humans are pack animals. Above all things, they have a
deep need to
| follow something, be it a leader, a creed, or a mob.
Whosoever fully
| understands this holds the world in his hands.
| for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
...

That is not an option for all the other airplanes or ATC.


Incorrect. See subparagraph c. below:



FAA Order 7110.65R Air Traffic Control

Chapter 2. General Control

Section 1. General

2-1-1. ATC SERVICE

The primary purpose of the ATC system is to prevent a collision
between aircraft operating in the system and to organize and expedite the
flow of traffic. In addition to its primary function, the ATC system has the
capability to provide (with certain limitations) additional services. The
ability to provide additional services is limited by many factors, such as
the volume of traffic, frequency congestion, quality of radar, controller
workload, higher priority duties, and the pure physical inability to scan
and detect those situations that fall in this category. It is recognized
that these services cannot be provided in cases in which the provision of
services is precluded by the above factors. Consistent with the
aforementioned conditions, controllers shall provide additional service
procedures to the extent permitted by higher priority duties and other
circumstances. The provision of additional services is not optional on the
part of the controller, but rather is required when the work situation
permits. Provide air traffic control service in accordance with the
procedures and minima in this order except when:

a. A deviation is necessary to conform with ICAO Documents, National
Rules of the Air, or special agreements where the U.S. provides air traffic
control service in airspace outside the U.S. and its possessions or:

NOTE-
Pilots are required to abide by CFRs or other applicable regulations
regardless of the application of any procedure or minima in this order.

b. Other procedures/minima are prescribed in a letter of agreement,
FAA directive, or a military document, or:

NOTE-
These procedures may include altitude reservations, air refueling,
fighter interceptor operations, law enforcement, etc.

REFERENCE-
FAAO 7110.65, Procedural Letters of Agreement, Para 1-1-9.

c. A deviation is necessary to assist an aircraft when an emergency
has been declared.

REFERENCE-
FAAO 7110.65, Safety Alert, Para 2-1-6.
FAAO 7110.65, Emergencies, Chapter 10
FAAO 7110.65, Merging Target Procedures, Para 5-1-8.

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
...
That is not an option for all the other airplanes or ATC.



"Jose" wrote in message
...
| neither does a 10° heading change create legal
| separation in one minute.
|
| Legal separation is nice, but in an emergency, I'll settle
for anything
| that doesn't bend metal.
|

Have you listened to the tape. It is pretty obvious that the controller was
willing to give the pilot the straight-in and the supervisor said no without
any rationalization. In my opinion the airspace could have been cleared,
but the supervisor choose not to. Listen to the tape and tell me what you
think.

Danny Deger

| Jose
| --
| Humans are pack animals. Above all things, they have a
deep need to
| follow something, be it a leader, a creed, or a mob.
Whosoever fully
| understands this holds the world in his hands.
| for Email, make the obvious change in the address.