Low fuel emergency in DFW

neither does a 10° heading change create legal
separation in one minute.

Legal separation is nice, but in an emergency, I'll settle for anything
that doesn't bend metal.

Jose
--
Humans are pack animals. Above all things, they have a deep need to
follow something, be it a leader, a creed, or a mob. Whosoever fully
understands this holds the world in his hands.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

That is not an option for all the other airplanes or ATC.



"Jose" wrote in message
...
| neither does a 10° heading change create legal
| separation in one minute.
|
| Legal separation is nice, but in an emergency, I'll settle
for anything
| that doesn't bend metal.
|
| Jose
| --
| Humans are pack animals. Above all things, they have a
deep need to
| follow something, be it a leader, a creed, or a mob.
Whosoever fully
| understands this holds the world in his hands.
| for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

That is not an option for all the other airplanes or ATC.

Yes it it.

Jose
--
Humans are pack animals. Above all things, they have a deep need to
follow something, be it a leader, a creed, or a mob. Whosoever fully
understands this holds the world in his hands.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Which law, rule or regulation allows near mid-air collisions
because one aircraft has a cob up their ass?




"Jose" wrote in message
. ..
| That is not an option for all the other airplanes or ATC.
|
| Yes it it.
|
| Jose
| --
| Humans are pack animals. Above all things, they have a
deep need to
| follow something, be it a leader, a creed, or a mob.
Whosoever fully
| understands this holds the world in his hands.
| for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jim Macklin" writes:

Which law, rule or regulation allows near mid-air collisions
because one aircraft has a cob up their ass?

None. But the law allows anything for an aircraft in an emergency.
Near-midair collisions are not a risk, anyway.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Which law, rule or regulation allows near mid-air collisions
because one aircraft has a cob up their ass?

The one that gives an emergency aircraft priority over all other aircraft.

Jose
--
Humans are pack animals. Above all things, they have a deep need to
follow something, be it a leader, a creed, or a mob. Whosoever fully
understands this holds the world in his hands.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

No, it does not, it gives the PIC the legal authority to
deviate from any law, rule or clearance GIVEN by ATC pr the
FAA. It does not allow the PIC to justify causing an
accident.

ATCs job in an emergency is to think straight and get the
PIC priority service and on the ground ASAP within the
bounds of possibilities. Think about the movie Airport,
that had a snow covered runway, a stuck plane on a runway
and noise complaints. Dean Martin as PIC was demanding
clearance to the runway that was blocked. ATC doesn't have
authority to physically clear a runway, that was about the
only accurate part of that movie.


Priority does not mean ATC will build a runway in 30 seconds
so you can land.



"Jose" wrote in message
t...
| Which law, rule or regulation allows near mid-air
collisions
| because one aircraft has a cob up their ass?
|
| The one that gives an emergency aircraft priority over all
other aircraft.
|
| Jose
| --
| Humans are pack animals. Above all things, they have a
deep need to
| follow something, be it a leader, a creed, or a mob.
Whosoever fully
| understands this holds the world in his hands.
| for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
...

ATCs job in an emergency is to think straight and get the
PIC priority service and on the ground ASAP within the
bounds of possibilities.


In this case they did neither.



Think about the movie Airport,
that had a snow covered runway, a stuck plane on a runway
and noise complaints. Dean Martin as PIC was demanding
clearance to the runway that was blocked. ATC doesn't have
authority to physically clear a runway, that was about the
only accurate part of that movie.


No, ATC doesn't. But there are people with that authority and Burt
Lancaster had ordered the snow plows to push the 707 off the runway if
George Kennedy wasn't able to move it by more conventional means before the
emergency aircraft arrived.

Actually, "Airport" was pretty accurate, far better than it's sequels which
went progressively from bad to bizarre.



Priority does not mean ATC will build a runway in 30 seconds
so you can land.


No, it means ATC will give an aircraft in distress the right of way over
all other air traffic. They didn't do that in this case, that's the error.

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
...

That is not an option for all the other airplanes or ATC.


Incorrect. See subparagraph c. below:



FAA Order 7110.65R Air Traffic Control

Chapter 2. General Control

Section 1. General

2-1-1. ATC SERVICE

The primary purpose of the ATC system is to prevent a collision
between aircraft operating in the system and to organize and expedite the
flow of traffic. In addition to its primary function, the ATC system has the
capability to provide (with certain limitations) additional services. The
ability to provide additional services is limited by many factors, such as
the volume of traffic, frequency congestion, quality of radar, controller
workload, higher priority duties, and the pure physical inability to scan
and detect those situations that fall in this category. It is recognized
that these services cannot be provided in cases in which the provision of
services is precluded by the above factors. Consistent with the
aforementioned conditions, controllers shall provide additional service
procedures to the extent permitted by higher priority duties and other
circumstances. The provision of additional services is not optional on the
part of the controller, but rather is required when the work situation
permits. Provide air traffic control service in accordance with the
procedures and minima in this order except when:

a. A deviation is necessary to conform with ICAO Documents, National
Rules of the Air, or special agreements where the U.S. provides air traffic
control service in airspace outside the U.S. and its possessions or:

NOTE-
Pilots are required to abide by CFRs or other applicable regulations
regardless of the application of any procedure or minima in this order.

b. Other procedures/minima are prescribed in a letter of agreement,
FAA directive, or a military document, or:

NOTE-
These procedures may include altitude reservations, air refueling,
fighter interceptor operations, law enforcement, etc.

REFERENCE-
FAAO 7110.65, Procedural Letters of Agreement, Para 1-1-9.

c. A deviation is necessary to assist an aircraft when an emergency
has been declared.

REFERENCE-
FAAO 7110.65, Safety Alert, Para 2-1-6.
FAAO 7110.65, Emergencies, Chapter 10
FAAO 7110.65, Merging Target Procedures, Para 5-1-8.

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
...
That is not an option for all the other airplanes or ATC.



"Jose" wrote in message
...
| neither does a 10° heading change create legal
| separation in one minute.
|
| Legal separation is nice, but in an emergency, I'll settle
for anything
| that doesn't bend metal.
|

Have you listened to the tape. It is pretty obvious that the controller was
willing to give the pilot the straight-in and the supervisor said no without
any rationalization. In my opinion the airspace could have been cleared,
but the supervisor choose not to. Listen to the tape and tell me what you
think.

Danny Deger

| Jose
| --
| Humans are pack animals. Above all things, they have a
deep need to
| follow something, be it a leader, a creed, or a mob.
Whosoever fully
| understands this holds the world in his hands.
| for Email, make the obvious change in the address.