Boarding with engines running

Mxsmanic wrote:
In my case, I consider going to and from the airport to be boring.

I find breathing to be quite boring, as well. May I please have a
simulator where I can pretend to carry out aerobic metabolism without
those nasty boring bits like breathing, eating, or excreting waste?


I consider
not being close to home at the end of a flight to be hugely inconvenient.

Assuming that you don't live in the middle of a large bog (as trolls are
wont to do, I'm told), there's a GA airport within walking distance of
your house. Promise.

I
consider paying $250 an hour for each hour of flight to be very stressful.

When I did my training, I was paying $80/hour, wet. One of my good
friends knew an owner and could get $39/hour, wet. Hell, I was only
paying $137/hour at ERAU, and THAT was the high price at the field.
$250/hour will get you something between a twin and a turboprop, wet.

Of course, you should learn the golden concept of pro rata. Bring a few
of your good friends along (you DO have friends, right?), and suddenly
that 250 is only $83 and change.

I
consider having to spend thousands of dollars and trudge through endless
paperwork just to be allowed to fly to be unacceptably onerous.

See the above. If putting your name and home address on a form is too
difficult, it's a wonder how you managed to get Usenet access in the
first place.

I consider a
requirement that one be in Olympic condition to get a license to be an
unnecessary burden.

I think you will find that many pilots are hardly Olympic-class
athletes. More like "healthy and generally not covered in green, scaly
warts".

I consider the inaccessibility of ownership of an
aircraft to be a major disappointment.

Something like 75% of all GA pilots either rent or have a fractional
ownership, neither of which is impossible (or even improbable) on even a
modest income.

I consider the possibility of being
killed to be an uncomfortably high risk.

You could die right now, reading this post. BAM, brain aneurysm (caused,
no doubt, by the sudden ingestion of too much logic). They'll find you
two weeks later, clutched over the keyboard, your body offering up the
most odoriferous effluence imaginable.

I consider the absence of bathrooms
on some aircraft to be a major inconvenience.

I told you to go before we left!

I'm surprised by how many people
cannot successfully take off or land in a simulator. This includes some
pilots, or at least the ones who have become dependent on physical sensations

.... or it indicates how important those sensations really are to the art
and style of flying (which you have wholeheartedly discounted, not
actually having felt them yourself). Flying is not all numbers and
formulas, do X and Y will always result, a cold calculation done in head
to achieve an unerring sum. There's a feel to this sort of thing.

Simulation only works if you take it seriously.

So does life, oddly enough.

The same type of personality that blows off
checklists in simulation because "it's not real life, anyway," may also do the
same thing in real life, with some similar dismissal as rationalization.

Or perhaps it is that some people are able to distinguish between
virtual existence and the corporeal world, and understand that their
actions in one do not affect the outcome in the other.

Also, patently false generalizations by non-qualified personnel FTL.

Reality might also be the least desirable part of the experience.

And yet reality is what the simulation (and similarly, the "serious" sim
pilot) strives for, in all dealings. So, no, if anything, simulations
should be MORE like real flying.

They enjoy reading about them and watching them, but
they don't want any reality behind it.

Reading a good murder mystery doesn't make you any more a detective than
flying a virtual 737 makes you qualified to offer edicts on procedure or
operation.

It's hard to appreciate the beauty of the Rocky Mountains when you
are hurtling towards them uncontrollably.

Which is, oddly enough, why pilots spend all that time doing that
"training" lark, so that they can keep from doing any hurtling, much
less uncontrollably so.

---
Mxsmanic wrote:

There's nothing magic about being a real pilot

Not that you would know, being a feckless, cross/troll-posting,
arrogant, venomous, whingebag shut-in, without the stones to partake in
what he's "trying" to "simulate".

There, now your defeat is signatory on BOTH NG's. I couldn't possibly
have imagined the depth and breadth of your utter foolishness could
extend as far as it does here. "Surely, they're exaggerating" "He
couldn't be that stupid, could he?", I said to myself.

The rumors were true.

TheSmokingGnu

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
Is it safe/advisable to board a small single- or twin-engined aircraft
while
the prop(s) and engine(s) are turning? I'm just wondering if this is
feasible
if you just have someone getting on or getting off (with the pilot being
in
the aircraft the whole time).

It's feasible if some precautions are exercised. I did single-engine turns
in 19 seat turboprops for years. The left seat pilot watches out the window
for passengers who go anywhere but the stairs and the right seat pilot is at
the base of the stairs to guide the passengers. Only once did we shutdown in
a panic. I saw the wind take a stuffed animal from a child's hand toward the
running engine. I feared the child would bolt for the stuffed animal and I
feathered the engine into shutdown. Fortunately the child didn't go after
it.

On a related note, how long can you safely leave an aircraft (engines off)
with just the parking brake set, and when do you normally put chocks under
the
wheels?

On the big jets, we stop at the gate, set the parking brake, check for
alternate electrical power, shutdown the engines, turn off the seatbelt
sign, wait for the signal that chocks are in place, and release the parking
brake for heat dissipation.

D.

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Jim Logajan writes:

There are real pilots on the sim newsgroups that can and do help
non-pilots
understand the differences between real life flying and simulated flying.

There's nothing magic about being a real pilot, despite what pilots like
to
believe. I know that it irritates them to face this.

He never said there was.....but just between you and me, I believe that
flying a real plane is the most magic experience you can have, next to the
birth of your children that is. I don't expect you to understand that, as I
doubt either scenario will ever eventuate for you.
Oz/Crash Lander


If there were no newsgroups for discussing flying simulations you might
be
within reason to discuss that subject here. But since there are at least
two newsgroups that I know of where MS Flight Simulator is directly on
topic per their charters, you really have no plausible rationale to
continue to raise such topics here.

Fortunately, I don't need to justify my posting preferences to you or
anyone
else.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

On the big jets, we stop at the gate, set the parking brake, check for
alternate electrical power, shutdown the engines, turn off the seatbelt
sign, wait for the signal that chocks are in place, and release the
parking
brake for heat dissipation.

I had known when the parking brake was normally applied on a transport jet,
but not when it was usually released--just not something I ever needed to
know.

Thanks,
Peter

Crash Lander writes:

He never said there was.....but just between you and me, I believe that
flying a real plane is the most magic experience you can have, next to the
birth of your children that is.

I consider the birth of children to be extremely mundane. After all, it
occurs better than twice per second worldwide. Perhaps I'm simply not that
easily impressed.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

TheSmokingGnu writes:

I find breathing to be quite boring, as well. May I please have a
simulator where I can pretend to carry out aerobic metabolism without
those nasty boring bits like breathing, eating, or excreting waste?

I don't know any way of avoiding these things; if I did, you can be sure that
I would have eliminated them by now.

Assuming that you don't live in the middle of a large bog (as trolls are
wont to do, I'm told), there's a GA airport within walking distance of
your house. Promise.

The nearest airport is about 15 miles away. That's a five-hour walk, and
while I've been known to walk for longer than that at a stretch, it's too
inconvenient to count.

When I did my training, I was paying $80/hour, wet. One of my good
friends knew an owner and could get $39/hour, wet. Hell, I was only
paying $137/hour at ERAU, and THAT was the high price at the field.
$250/hour will get you something between a twin and a turboprop, wet.

I presume you don't live in Europe.

Of course, you should learn the golden concept of pro rata. Bring a few
of your good friends along (you DO have friends, right?), and suddenly
that 250 is only $83 and change.

And what are my friends going to do while I'm flying?

See the above. If putting your name and home address on a form is too
difficult, it's a wonder how you managed to get Usenet access in the
first place.

Unfortunately, it's much more than putting a name and address on a form.

I think you will find that many pilots are hardly Olympic-class
athletes. More like "healthy and generally not covered in green, scaly
warts".

Many of them are in poor condition, I'm sure. But the medical doesn't address
fitness, it addresses a long list of imaginary issues.

Something like 75% of all GA pilots either rent or have a fractional
ownership, neither of which is impossible (or even improbable) on even a
modest income.

That proves my point. Most people don't rent or have fractional ownership of
their cars.

You could die right now, reading this post. BAM, brain aneurysm (caused,
no doubt, by the sudden ingestion of too much logic). They'll find you
two weeks later, clutched over the keyboard, your body offering up the
most odoriferous effluence imaginable.

Pulling negative Gs at altitude would greatly increase that probability.

But the real risk is that of an accident.

I told you to go before we left!

After three hours or so, it's time to go again, depending on many variables.

... or it indicates how important those sensations really are to the art
and style of flying ...

Except that they aren't, as IFR flight proves, and as the accidents of pilots
flying in IMC without special training amply demonstrates. Not only are the
largely unnecessary, but they are often worse than unnecessary, because they
are distracting and misleading.

... (which you have wholeheartedly discounted, not
actually having felt them yourself).

I have felt them myself. I've been in a plane, just not at the controls. But
the whole plane moves, not just the cockpit.

Flying is not all numbers and formulas ...

That depends on the flying environment. It's a lot more numbers and formulas
than seat of the pants.

... do X and Y will always result, a cold calculation done in head
to achieve an unerring sum. There's a feel to this sort of thing.

I do not share this romantic illusion.

And yet reality is what the simulation (and similarly, the "serious" sim
pilot) strives for, in all dealings.

With certain key omissions. A perfect simulation of reality would not be a
simulation, nor would it serve much purpose.

Reading a good murder mystery doesn't make you any more a detective than
flying a virtual 737 makes you qualified to offer edicts on procedure or
operation.

Try me. I wouldn't mind a few hours in a 737 simulator. Specifically, a
737-800. I'm working on the 747-400.

Which is, oddly enough, why pilots spend all that time doing that
"training" lark, so that they can keep from doing any hurtling, much
less uncontrollably so.

Then why do so many of them crash?

Not that you would know, being a feckless, cross/troll-posting,
arrogant, venomous, whingebag shut-in, without the stones to partake in
what he's "trying" to "simulate".

There, now your defeat is signatory on BOTH NG's.

Well, at least you made me smile.

I couldn't possibly
have imagined the depth and breadth of your utter foolishness could
extend as far as it does here. "Surely, they're exaggerating" "He
couldn't be that stupid, could he?", I said to myself.

In contrast, I could have easily predicted the tone and perhaps even the words
of your post. I'm used to it.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Crash Lander writes:

He never said there was.....but just between you and me, I believe that
flying a real plane is the most magic experience you can have, next to
the
birth of your children that is.

I consider the birth of children to be extremely mundane. After all, it
occurs better than twice per second worldwide. Perhaps I'm simply not
that
easily impressed.

I can think of 1 second that could have been better spent! The result of
which has indeed become very mundane.
Crash Lander

Capt.Doug writes:

On the big jets, we stop at the gate, set the parking brake, check for
alternate electrical power, shutdown the engines, turn off the seatbelt
sign, wait for the signal that chocks are in place, and release the parking
brake for heat dissipation.

Is the parking brake on a large aircraft a separate mechanism from the regular
brakes, or does it use the same mechanism?

Which reminds me ... I once took off from LAX in my 747-400, and after a bit I
happened to look at the gear page on the EICAS, and it showed all the brakes
in the yellow range for temperature (9). I absolutely could not figure out
how I had heated them up, as I had rolled very gentle to the runway, and I had
generally slowed just by cutting the throttle rather than by applying the
brakes (the 747-400 seems to slow very quickly if you have N1 at less than 36%
or so, even lightly loaded).

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Of course, you should learn the golden concept of pro rata. Bring a few
of your good friends along (you DO have friends, right?), and suddenly
that 250 is only $83 and change.

And what are my friends going to do while I'm flying?

ROFLMAO! Go on! Name one! Assuming you do pull a name that you, at least,
consider a friend, he'd do exactly what he does at your place while you sim
fly!

Most people don't rent or have fractional ownership of
their cars.

A LOT of people a re paying off cars. They call it Hire Purchase.

Crash Lander

Mxsmanic wrote:
Capt.Doug writes:


On the big jets, we stop at the gate, set the parking brake, check for
alternate electrical power, shutdown the engines, turn off the seatbelt
sign, wait for the signal that chocks are in place, and release the parking
brake for heat dissipation.


Is the parking brake on a large aircraft a separate mechanism from the regular
brakes, or does it use the same mechanism?

Which reminds me ... I once took off from LAX in my 747-400, and after a bit I
happened to look at the gear page on the EICAS, and it showed all the brakes
in the yellow range for temperature (9). I absolutely could not figure out
how I had heated them up, as I had rolled very gentle to the runway, and I had
generally slowed just by cutting the throttle rather than by applying the
brakes (the 747-400 seems to slow very quickly if you have N1 at less than 36%
or so, even lightly loaded).

Gracious, Anthony! First your spell checker fails, and now your grammar
is going by the wayside, too? Are you overdosing on Jolt and Galoise, or
is it just time to check the meds?