IFR just 5.4% of the time

The real bottom line to this is having managed to meet the PTS for the
IR makes you a more proficient pilot ... And while skills need
practice to keep them honed to a razors edge, being more proficient
carries over into better decisions and safer flying overall...
Insurance companies offer a premium discount to the instrument rating
- must be a reason for this...

Bottom line is every pilot should take the training for the IR... Even
if he never uses the rating he will benefit..

denny

Bottom line is every pilot should take the training for the IR... Even
if he never uses the rating he will benefit..

Agree 100%. The training I did in preparation for the IR really made
me a much more precise pilot. I wish I had finished it up, but there
just weren't enough hours in the day, after we bought the hotel.

Again, my only purpose for this thread was to show (by newly-available
statistical analysis) that VFR cross-country flying is easily doable,
and that an instrument rating is not going to allow you to be an "all-
weather" flyer in the planes most of us own and operate.

I think most of us intuitively *knew* all this, but my friend's data
helps us see it more clearly.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Mar 1, 12:19 pm, "Jay Honeck" wrote:
Bottom line is every pilot should take the training for the IR... Even
if he never uses the rating he will benefit..

Agree 100%. The training I did in preparation for the IR really made
me a much more precise pilot. I wish I had finished it up, but there
just weren't enough hours in the day, after we bought the hotel.

Again, my only purpose for this thread was to show (by newly-available
statistical analysis) that VFR cross-country flying is easily doable,
and that an instrument rating is not going to allow you to be an "all-
weather" flyer in the planes most of us own and operate.

I think most of us intuitively *knew* all this, but my friend's data
helps us see it more clearly.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"


I would concur with your observations. With my instrument students,
sometimes we end up waitng for several weeks to get find suitable IMC
conditions. Most of the time we get ice, thunderstorm or just too
windy. If you look in any pilots logbook, the IMC hours should tell
you something. Most of the pilot I fly with have about 5-10% IMC time,
which roughly corresponds with your ASOS observations. And this is in
the Great Lakes area, which has no shortage of IFR conditions. I used
to live in the desert southwest, where IMC was a rare novelty.

However, I almost always file IFR because it makes life so much
easier. May be I am being too lazy, but I can't imagine flying into
Chicago, Detroit or across the border into Canada without filing IFR.

If you look in any pilots logbook, the IMC hours should tell
you something.

Yes, but you might not hear what it's telling you. I have very little
actual in my book, but part of that is that She Who Must Be Obeyed (who
is actually a real good sport about flying) doesn't particularly like
IMC, and would much prefer waiting a day to go CAVU.

SO, we go CAVU.

Jose
--
Humans are pack animals. Above all things, they have a deep need to
follow something, be it a leader, a creed, or a mob. Whosoever fully
understands this holds the world in his hands.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Yes, but you might not hear what it's telling you. I have very little
actual in my book, but part of that is that She Who Must Be Obeyed (who
is actually a real good sport about flying) doesn't particularly like
IMC, and would much prefer waiting a day to go CAVU.

SO, we go CAVU.

This brings up a whole 'nother aspect of this discussion, which quite
simply asks: Who *wants* to fly IFR?

Flying IFR is almost always uncomfortable. Even when it's smooth, it's
absolutely no fun for the passengers, whose only real reward for
putting up with GA is the view. (Well, and the time savings over
driving, of course.)

Most of the instrument rated pilots I know try to avoid flying IFR as
much as I do, only using the rating when necessary to pop up (or down)
through unavoidable IMC. This, of course, leads to a lack of
proficiency, and the unavoidable fact that they really aren't prepared
for flying in hard IMC.

This is exactly what Mary and will use the rating for -- a safety
outlet -- and is one major reason why we fear that we might just end
up just dangerous enough to kill someone.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Mar 1, 10:11 pm, "Jay Honeck" wrote:


This brings up a whole 'nother aspect of this discussion, which quite
simply asks: Who *wants* to fly IFR?

Flying IFR is almost always uncomfortable. Even when it's smooth, it's
absolutely no fun for the passengers, whose only real reward for
putting up with GA is the view. (Well, and the time savings over
driving, of course.)

I would definitely not describe IFR as uncomfortable, any more than
flying VFR as uncomfortable. Actually, I find IFR in IMC comforting
because I don't have to look for traffic, and I don't have to worry
about busting anyones airspace. Every time I fly VFR through busy
airspaces I am constantly worrying whether I have the right
frequencies for the appropriate airspaces. No such worry under IFR.

The only thing to watch for under IFR is getting into a trap, such as
icing, thunderstorms or very low minimums.

I am not sure about the outside view argument either. There is nothing
to compare with breaking out on top and skimming the tops of each
cloud with clear sunshine above. If you are nice to the controller,
you might even get a block altitude so that you can go do some cloud
popping. Every passenger I flew with loved this. Granted, every IFR
flight is not like this, but every VFR flight is not a glassy smooth
scenic flight either.

This brings up a whole 'nother aspect of this discussion, which quite
simply asks: Who *wants* to fly IFR?

Flying IFR is almost always uncomfortable. Even when it's smooth, it's
absolutely no fun...

This brings to mind another discussion in another thread, with another
"pilot".

I want to fly IFR. It keeps me sharp. It is challenging and rewarding.
And it gets me there when VFR might not. I love popping into and out
of cumulous clouds, or just skimming a stratus layer. I love seeing the
runway appear as if by magic after an hour or two of pea soup.

I also love to fly VFR, skimming the treetops while the leaves below me
change color in October. But flying in solid cloud is much more
interesting than flying in 4 mile haze five thousand feet up.

Jose
--
Humans are pack animals. Above all things, they have a deep need to
follow something, be it a leader, a creed, or a mob. Whosoever fully
understands this holds the world in his hands.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jay Honeck writes:

Flying IFR is almost always uncomfortable. Even when it's smooth, it's
absolutely no fun for the passengers, whose only real reward for
putting up with GA is the view. (Well, and the time savings over
driving, of course.)

Most of the instrument rated pilots I know try to avoid flying IFR as
much as I do, only using the rating when necessary to pop up (or down)
through unavoidable IMC. This, of course, leads to a lack of
proficiency, and the unavoidable fact that they really aren't prepared
for flying in hard IMC.

This is exactly what Mary and will use the rating for -- a safety
outlet -- and is one major reason why we fear that we might just end
up just dangerous enough to kill someone.

What about flying IFR at night? If it's dark enough that you can't see much
outside, you get the benefits of IFR without many of the dangers of IMC. You
can just fly regular night flights IFR and maintain your currency that way,
and yet you won't be stressed by bad weather to worry about.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Mxsmanic wrote:
Jay Honeck writes:

Flying IFR is almost always uncomfortable. Even when it's smooth, it's
snip
What about flying IFR at night? If it's dark enough that you can't see much
outside, you get the benefits of IFR without many of the dangers of IMC. You
can just fly regular night flights IFR and maintain your currency that way,
and yet you won't be stressed by bad weather to worry about.

If it's dark enough that you can't see much outside, then it _is_ IMC. Flying
at night normally doesn't really simulate IMC. There's a clear sense of up
and down. I do think that flying under the hood at night is a little better
than in the day. I find the combination of turbulence dropping one wing or
the other and no outside visual cues to be the real challenge in IMC flight.
Navigation isn't as much an issue. Simply filing night IFR won't satisfy
the FAA for currency either.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

--
Don Poitras

On Mar 2, 2:12 am, Mxsmanic wrote:
Jay Honeck writes:
Flying IFR is almost always uncomfortable. Even when it's smooth, it's
absolutely no fun for the passengers, whose only real reward for
putting up with GA is the view. (Well, and the time savings over
driving, of course.)

Most of the instrument rated pilots I know try to avoid flying IFR as
much as I do, only using the rating when necessary to pop up (or down)
through unavoidable IMC. This, of course, leads to a lack of
proficiency, and the unavoidable fact that they really aren't prepared
for flying in hard IMC.

This is exactly what Mary and will use the rating for -- a safety
outlet -- and is one major reason why we fear that we might just end
up just dangerous enough to kill someone.

What about flying IFR at night? If it's dark enough that you can't see much
outside, you get the benefits of IFR without many of the dangers of IMC. You
can just fly regular night flights IFR and maintain your currency that way,
and yet you won't be stressed by bad weather to worry about.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

What ARE you rambling about? Go look up the definition of IMC and
VMC. Its not about weather or day or night. Its about flying by
instrument or visual reference. There are plenty of hazy summer days
at 12 noon that have alot less visibility and "reference to visual
cues" than the darkest nights with only a few lights below to gauge
which was is up and down. IMC at night is just as "dangerous" as IMC
during the day. IMC is IMC, regardless of what the clock says. If
you don't know how to interpret the instrument and get spatially
disoriented, you can die just the same. Remember JFK Jr?...not a
cloud in the sky but a moonless flight over dark water with no
reference to the ground or horizon. While he was not instrument
rated, IMC killed him just the same.

--Jeff