Rolling a Non Aerobat 150

On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 21:35:00 -0500, "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" The Sea
Hawk at wow way d0t com wrote:

"RST Engineering" wrote in message
...
Note that what is said here is not true. The regs say that you can teach
any maneuver that is "required for a rating" without parachutes. This
includes spins. You can teach a student spins without a parachute(s) if
you wish.

Jim


And, one could consider the fact that wearing a parachute or not won't make
one bit of difference (at least as far as survival is concerned) in 90+% of
the aircraft used for training if one were to find a spin to be
unrecoverable and/or if one were to pull the wings off.

A spin is a fully stalled condition. The doors of a 150 or 172 should
be *relatively* easy to open as opposed to being in a high speed
spiral.


For the parachute to do any good, you would have to be able to open the door
far enough to actually get out of the airplane. You could do it in a
Citabria or 150 Acro with the door release - or something like a Cub. But
anything else? Naah...

But, of course, if one were to die inside the aircraft, having a 'chute on
should be enough to assure that one would go to heaven since he and/or she
would have died while complying with FAA regulations. The rest of us will
end up in a significantly less comforable environment, eh?

Personally I think spins are fun.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On Fri, 02 Mar 2007 01:38:09 -0500, Roger
wrote in :

A spin is a fully stalled condition.

I would characterize it as more of a condition where one wing is
partially stalled.

On Fri, 02 Mar 2007 20:40:18 GMT, Larry Dighera
wrote:

On Fri, 02 Mar 2007 01:38:09 -0500, Roger
wrote in :

A spin is a fully stalled condition.

I would characterize it as more of a condition where one wing is
partially stalled.

Or more stalled than the other. Either way a spin is a pretty benign
condition in most of the stuff we fly. OTOH an acellerated or inverted
spin is a bit more interesting.:-))

But the point is that in a regular spin the doors should be relatively
easy to open in a 150 or 172.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Roger wrote:



A spin is a fully stalled condition. The doors of a 150 or 172 should
be *relatively* easy to open as opposed to being in a high speed
spiral.

As I understand it, there is a difference in the _extent_ of the stall
between the two wings. If that were not the case and both wings were
fully stalled (which would require AOA to be ~90 degrees I think) the
yaw would decay due to fusilage and tail drag?

Cheers Mark

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On 2007-03-05, DR wrote:
Roger wrote:
A spin is a fully stalled condition. The doors of a 150 or 172 should
be *relatively* easy to open as opposed to being in a high speed
spiral.

As I understand it, there is a difference in the _extent_ of the stall
between the two wings.

I think 'fully stalled' in the context of a spin means that both wings
exceed the critical angle of attack. That's not to say one wing can't
have a different AoA than the other (IIRC, the critical angle of attack
is something on the order of 16 degrees)

--
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Dylan Smith schrieb:

I think 'fully stalled' in the context of a spin means that both wings
exceed the critical angle of attack. That's not to say one wing can't

The outer wing isn't necessairily stalled.

have a different AoA than the other (IIRC, the critical angle of attack
is something on the order of 16 degrees)

Even without a thorough knowledge, I dare to believe that this depends
on the profile...

On Mar 4, 8:59 pm, DR wrote:
Roger wrote:

A spin is a fully stalled condition. The doors of a 150 or 172 should
be *relatively* easy to open as opposed to being in a high speed
spiral.

As I understand it, there is a difference in the _extent_ of the stall
between the two wings. If that were not the case and both wings were
fully stalled (which would require AOA to be ~90 degrees I think) the
yaw would decay due to fusilage and tail drag?

Cheers Mark
thought I'd jump in on this one. I've been a Stearman driver for about 30 years and might have about as much time in "unusual attitudes" as right side up. In a fully developed spin, the door on the outside of the spin will be pretty difficult to open, and in fact it's tough to even move yourself out on that side. the old military training in open cockpits was to bail to the inside of the spin if unrecoverable. so, the quick release pins are in the aerobat to ensure you can get the door off- Centrifigal force and wind presssure will keep it closed otherwise.