IFR just 5.4% of the time

Jay Honeck writes:

Flying IFR is almost always uncomfortable. Even when it's smooth, it's
absolutely no fun for the passengers, whose only real reward for
putting up with GA is the view. (Well, and the time savings over
driving, of course.)

Most of the instrument rated pilots I know try to avoid flying IFR as
much as I do, only using the rating when necessary to pop up (or down)
through unavoidable IMC. This, of course, leads to a lack of
proficiency, and the unavoidable fact that they really aren't prepared
for flying in hard IMC.

This is exactly what Mary and will use the rating for -- a safety
outlet -- and is one major reason why we fear that we might just end
up just dangerous enough to kill someone.

What about flying IFR at night? If it's dark enough that you can't see much
outside, you get the benefits of IFR without many of the dangers of IMC. You
can just fly regular night flights IFR and maintain your currency that way,
and yet you won't be stressed by bad weather to worry about.

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Mxsmanic wrote:
Jay Honeck writes:

Flying IFR is almost always uncomfortable. Even when it's smooth, it's
snip
What about flying IFR at night? If it's dark enough that you can't see much
outside, you get the benefits of IFR without many of the dangers of IMC. You
can just fly regular night flights IFR and maintain your currency that way,
and yet you won't be stressed by bad weather to worry about.

If it's dark enough that you can't see much outside, then it _is_ IMC. Flying
at night normally doesn't really simulate IMC. There's a clear sense of up
and down. I do think that flying under the hood at night is a little better
than in the day. I find the combination of turbulence dropping one wing or
the other and no outside visual cues to be the real challenge in IMC flight.
Navigation isn't as much an issue. Simply filing night IFR won't satisfy
the FAA for currency either.

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--
Don Poitras

Don Poitras writes:

If it's dark enough that you can't see much outside, then it _is_ IMC.

Nighttime isn't a meteorological condition. That's why you don't see
nighttime indicators in METARs. The key point is that you don't see much,
which allows you to fly IFR. I suppose that if you look out the window you
might see something, but you have to look, whereas during the day, the scenery
outside is hard to ignore.

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On Mar 2, 8:12 am, Mxsmanic wrote:
Don Poitras writes:
If it's dark enough that you can't see much outside, then it _is_ IMC.

Nighttime isn't a meteorological condition. That's why you don't see
nighttime indicators in METARs. The key point is that you don't see much,
which allows you to fly IFR. I suppose that if you look out the window you
might see something, but you have to look, whereas during the day, the scenery
outside is hard to ignore.

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You can see just fine at night. In fact, you can see better, depending
on what you are looking for. Compare it to driving. Would you compare
driving at night to the equivalent of a thick fog?

Andrew Sarangan writes:

You can see just fine at night. In fact, you can see better, depending
on what you are looking for. Compare it to driving. Would you compare
driving at night to the equivalent of a thick fog?

No, but driving at night is still closer to fog than driving during the day.

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On Mar 2, 9:48 am, Mxsmanic wrote:
Andrew Sarangan writes:
You can see just fine at night. In fact, you can see better, depending
on what you are looking for. Compare it to driving. Would you compare
driving at night to the equivalent of a thick fog?

No, but driving at night is still closer to fog than driving during the day.


Not necessarily. For driving, you only need a clear view of the road
and traffic ahead. Whether you can see the scenery around you is
irrelevant for safe driving. Except for the darkness inside the cabin,
which makes it harder to read maps, the darkness outside is not a big
factor. As long as you can see the horizon, airports, runways and
other airplanes, it does not make a big difference how much of the
scenery you can see. This only becomes an issue if you have to make an
emergency off-field landing.

Andrew Sarangan writes:

Not necessarily. For driving, you only need a clear view of the road
and traffic ahead. Whether you can see the scenery around you is
irrelevant for safe driving. Except for the darkness inside the cabin,
which makes it harder to read maps, the darkness outside is not a big
factor. As long as you can see the horizon, airports, runways and
other airplanes, it does not make a big difference how much of the
scenery you can see.

What about terrain?

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Mxsmanic wrote:
Don Poitras writes:

If it's dark enough that you can't see much outside, then it _is_ IMC.

Nighttime isn't a meteorological condition. That's why you don't see
nighttime indicators in METARs. The key point is that you don't see much,
which allows you to fly IFR. I suppose that if you look out the window you
might see something, but you have to look, whereas during the day, the scenery
outside is hard to ignore.

You don't have to _look_, you just have to _see_. Unless you're under the hood,
you're going to see outside. And in fact, under VMC unless you have a safety
pilot, you are _required_ to look outside.

--
Don Poitras

On Mar 2, 2:12 am, Mxsmanic wrote:
Jay Honeck writes:
Flying IFR is almost always uncomfortable. Even when it's smooth, it's
absolutely no fun for the passengers, whose only real reward for
putting up with GA is the view. (Well, and the time savings over
driving, of course.)

Most of the instrument rated pilots I know try to avoid flying IFR as
much as I do, only using the rating when necessary to pop up (or down)
through unavoidable IMC. This, of course, leads to a lack of
proficiency, and the unavoidable fact that they really aren't prepared
for flying in hard IMC.

This is exactly what Mary and will use the rating for -- a safety
outlet -- and is one major reason why we fear that we might just end
up just dangerous enough to kill someone.

What about flying IFR at night? If it's dark enough that you can't see much
outside, you get the benefits of IFR without many of the dangers of IMC. You
can just fly regular night flights IFR and maintain your currency that way,
and yet you won't be stressed by bad weather to worry about.

--
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What ARE you rambling about? Go look up the definition of IMC and
VMC. Its not about weather or day or night. Its about flying by
instrument or visual reference. There are plenty of hazy summer days
at 12 noon that have alot less visibility and "reference to visual
cues" than the darkest nights with only a few lights below to gauge
which was is up and down. IMC at night is just as "dangerous" as IMC
during the day. IMC is IMC, regardless of what the clock says. If
you don't know how to interpret the instrument and get spatially
disoriented, you can die just the same. Remember JFK Jr?...not a
cloud in the sky but a moonless flight over dark water with no
reference to the ground or horizon. While he was not instrument
rated, IMC killed him just the same.

--Jeff

JB writes:

What ARE you rambling about? Go look up the definition of IMC and
VMC. Its not about weather or day or night. Its about flying by
instrument or visual reference.

No. VMC and IMC define the weather conditions of flight. VFR and IFR define
the governing rules of flight. IMC normally mandates IFR, but in VMC either
VFR or IFR can be used.

The distinction between IMC and VMC is unrelated to time of day. You can be
in VMC at any time of day or night; the same is true for IMC.

Flying at night provides you with fewer visual cues than flying during the
day, even when it's VMC. This is why it might be a useful compromise between
attempting to fly IFR in VMC during the day, and flying IFR in IMC.

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