Parachute Accessory

Bullwinkle wrote:
When I was in military survival training, they showed us the picture of a
guy who died because he didn't have his hook knife.

Landed in a tree, ended up hanging upside down, wrapped up in shroud lines.
Had his hook knife with him, but had not secured it in the survival knife
pocket of his flight suit with the supplied cord. He pulled it out, dropped
it, couldn't reach it on the ground (just a few inches too far), and died
before he could be rescued.

Bill Daniels blithely speaks in a similar thread about being mostly worried
about where to go for dinner and a beer: if he's not joking about that, then
his level of denial is almost pathological. He badly needs to re-examine his
assumptions.

You've got to think worst case scenario, and then decide what you need to
survive until you can get rescued or rescue yourself.

For me, I've given a lot of thought to the topic, and hope I'm prepared.

I can think of a worse worst case scenario than that, given a little
time. Probably would require full body armor and close air support to
survive. ;-)
Avoiding the need to hit the silk by having enough flight time,water and
pee bags in the cockpit is by far the best preparation IMNSHO.


Shawn

On 3/3/07 11:30 AM, in article ,
"Shawn" wrote:

Bullwinkle wrote:
When I was in military survival training, they showed us the picture of a
guy who died because he didn't have his hook knife.

Landed in a tree, ended up hanging upside down, wrapped up in shroud lines.
Had his hook knife with him, but had not secured it in the survival knife
pocket of his flight suit with the supplied cord. He pulled it out, dropped
it, couldn't reach it on the ground (just a few inches too far), and died
before he could be rescued.

Bill Daniels blithely speaks in a similar thread about being mostly worried
about where to go for dinner and a beer: if he's not joking about that, then
his level of denial is almost pathological. He badly needs to re-examine his
assumptions.

You've got to think worst case scenario, and then decide what you need to
survive until you can get rescued or rescue yourself.

For me, I've given a lot of thought to the topic, and hope I'm prepared.

I can think of a worse worst case scenario than that, given a little
time. Probably would require full body armor and close air support to
survive. ;-)
Avoiding the need to hit the silk by having enough flight time,water and
pee bags in the cockpit is by far the best preparation IMNSHO.


Shawn


OK: if "just don't have the accident in the first place" works for you,
great.

I'm just paranoid enough to want to be prepared for an overnight stay in the
boonies, potentially with injuries, and without access to the aircraft
wreckage. Therefore, survival essentials will go with me if I have to jump
(a course of action that I, too, will try to avoid through proper
preparation and training).

Agree that training, experience, and hydration are important preventive
measures, to which I pay close attention. But how will all the training in
the world keep you or me from being overrun from the rear by a clueless
Cessna driver, or a NetJets pilot letting down into Reno? Sometimes you just
can't prevent bad things from happening.

Shawn, if you're so sure you can avoid using it, why not fly this season
without a parachute?

Different strokes for different folks.

Respectfully,
Bullwinkle

Bullwinkle wrote:
On 3/3/07 11:30 AM, in article ,
"Shawn" wrote:

Bullwinkle wrote:
When I was in military survival training, they showed us the picture of a
guy who died because he didn't have his hook knife.

Landed in a tree, ended up hanging upside down, wrapped up in shroud lines.
Had his hook knife with him, but had not secured it in the survival knife
pocket of his flight suit with the supplied cord. He pulled it out, dropped
it, couldn't reach it on the ground (just a few inches too far), and died
before he could be rescued.

Bill Daniels blithely speaks in a similar thread about being mostly worried
about where to go for dinner and a beer: if he's not joking about that, then
his level of denial is almost pathological. He badly needs to re-examine his
assumptions.

You've got to think worst case scenario, and then decide what you need to
survive until you can get rescued or rescue yourself.

For me, I've given a lot of thought to the topic, and hope I'm prepared.
I can think of a worse worst case scenario than that, given a little
time. Probably would require full body armor and close air support to
survive. ;-)
Avoiding the need to hit the silk by having enough flight time,water and
pee bags in the cockpit is by far the best preparation IMNSHO.


Shawn


OK: if "just don't have the accident in the first place" works for you,
great.

I'm just paranoid enough to want to be prepared for an overnight stay in the
boonies, potentially with injuries, and without access to the aircraft
wreckage. Therefore, survival essentials will go with me if I have to jump
(a course of action that I, too, will try to avoid through proper
preparation and training).

Agree that training, experience, and hydration are important preventive
measures, to which I pay close attention. But how will all the training in
the world keep you or me from being overrun from the rear by a clueless
Cessna driver, or a NetJets pilot letting down into Reno? Sometimes you just
can't prevent bad things from happening.

Shawn, if you're so sure you can avoid using it, why not fly this season
without a parachute?

Different strokes for different folks.

You read too much into my post.
You said "You've got to think worst case scenario, and then decide what
you need to survive until you can get rescued or rescue yourself."
It sounded as though you meant we should be prepared for any eventuality
we can conceive of. Perhaps I read too much into your post.
I do prepare myself and the glider for a day or so's stay in the
Colorado mountains I fly in. It won't all come with me if I bail out.
The stats are clear, if you survive to the ground, you've survived by
far the most perilous part of the experience. I don't see a small
survival kit and a hook knife on the harness as unreasonable, but beyond
that I feel there are better places to spend safety dollars. E.g. more
training time, transponder, ELT.

Shawn

On 3/3/07 8:38 PM, in article ,
"Shawn" wrote:

Bullwinkle wrote:
On 3/3/07 11:30 AM, in article ,
"Shawn" wrote:

Bullwinkle wrote:
When I was in military survival training, they showed us the picture of a
guy who died because he didn't have his hook knife.

Landed in a tree, ended up hanging upside down, wrapped up in shroud lines.
Had his hook knife with him, but had not secured it in the survival knife
pocket of his flight suit with the supplied cord. He pulled it out, dropped
it, couldn't reach it on the ground (just a few inches too far), and died
before he could be rescued.

Bill Daniels blithely speaks in a similar thread about being mostly worried
about where to go for dinner and a beer: if he's not joking about that,
then
his level of denial is almost pathological. He badly needs to re-examine
his
assumptions.

You've got to think worst case scenario, and then decide what you need to
survive until you can get rescued or rescue yourself.

For me, I've given a lot of thought to the topic, and hope I'm prepared.
I can think of a worse worst case scenario than that, given a little
time. Probably would require full body armor and close air support to
survive. ;-)
Avoiding the need to hit the silk by having enough flight time,water and
pee bags in the cockpit is by far the best preparation IMNSHO.


Shawn


OK: if "just don't have the accident in the first place" works for you,
great.

I'm just paranoid enough to want to be prepared for an overnight stay in the
boonies, potentially with injuries, and without access to the aircraft
wreckage. Therefore, survival essentials will go with me if I have to jump
(a course of action that I, too, will try to avoid through proper
preparation and training).

Agree that training, experience, and hydration are important preventive
measures, to which I pay close attention. But how will all the training in
the world keep you or me from being overrun from the rear by a clueless
Cessna driver, or a NetJets pilot letting down into Reno? Sometimes you just
can't prevent bad things from happening.

Shawn, if you're so sure you can avoid using it, why not fly this season
without a parachute?

Different strokes for different folks.

You read too much into my post.
You said "You've got to think worst case scenario, and then decide what
you need to survive until you can get rescued or rescue yourself."
It sounded as though you meant we should be prepared for any eventuality
we can conceive of. Perhaps I read too much into your post.
I do prepare myself and the glider for a day or so's stay in the
Colorado mountains I fly in. It won't all come with me if I bail out.
The stats are clear, if you survive to the ground, you've survived by
far the most perilous part of the experience. I don't see a small
survival kit and a hook knife on the harness as unreasonable, but beyond
that I feel there are better places to spend safety dollars. E.g. more
training time, transponder, ELT.

Shawn

Shawn,

I apologize for misunderstanding: thought you were saying to ignore survival
in favor of accident prevention. My bad, and I'm sorry.

I have a two tier survival strategy.
1) I wear a survival vest under my parachute (in the military I used to
have one of these on all the time, so I am used to the concept), packed with
what I consider either "essentials" or very small, lightweight things that I
would want in any circumstance. Working on getting a camelback as part of
that rig, without compromising the ability of the chute to open (obviously,
on the front somewhere).
2) On board the aircraft, but not attached to me (i.e., won't go with me
during the jump), is additional water and other things I might want in the
likely chance that the aircraft fuselage is available to me after the dust
settles. Obviously, all that is available in a pure landout (no chute use).

When I said that you have to consider a worst case scenario, I meant exactly
that: CONSIDER it, and then you have to decide if you want to cover all
those possibilities. What risks are worth the effort, in other words. You
may decide that it is possible that you will have to defend yourself against
grizzly bears, but you may also decide not to take a firearm capable of that
with you (because the risk is small but the size and weight are too great.
But you've considered it.

Again, sorry for the misunderstanding. Good luck out there in Colorado.
Bullwinkle

Look at master rigger Allen Silver's web site for a small parachute
accessory called a SMAK pack which holds a hook knive, mirror, fire
starter and a whistle. $45. The hook knife is on a landyard so it
doesn't get away from you at a critical or inopportune moment. The
whole shebang is small and snaps to a part of the harness.

http://silverparachutesales.com/wst_page12.html

Bullwinkle wrote:
On 3/3/07 8:38 PM, in article ,
"Shawn" wrote:

Bullwinkle wrote:
On 3/3/07 11:30 AM, in article ,
"Shawn" wrote:

Bullwinkle wrote:
When I was in military survival training, they showed us the picture of a
guy who died because he didn't have his hook knife.

Landed in a tree, ended up hanging upside down, wrapped up in shroud lines.
Had his hook knife with him, but had not secured it in the survival knife
pocket of his flight suit with the supplied cord. He pulled it out, dropped
it, couldn't reach it on the ground (just a few inches too far), and died
before he could be rescued.

Bill Daniels blithely speaks in a similar thread about being mostly worried
about where to go for dinner and a beer: if he's not joking about that,
then
his level of denial is almost pathological. He badly needs to re-examine
his
assumptions.

You've got to think worst case scenario, and then decide what you need to
survive until you can get rescued or rescue yourself.

For me, I've given a lot of thought to the topic, and hope I'm prepared.
I can think of a worse worst case scenario than that, given a little
time. Probably would require full body armor and close air support to
survive. ;-)
Avoiding the need to hit the silk by having enough flight time,water and
pee bags in the cockpit is by far the best preparation IMNSHO.


Shawn

OK: if "just don't have the accident in the first place" works for you,
great.

I'm just paranoid enough to want to be prepared for an overnight stay in the
boonies, potentially with injuries, and without access to the aircraft
wreckage. Therefore, survival essentials will go with me if I have to jump
(a course of action that I, too, will try to avoid through proper
preparation and training).

Agree that training, experience, and hydration are important preventive
measures, to which I pay close attention. But how will all the training in
the world keep you or me from being overrun from the rear by a clueless
Cessna driver, or a NetJets pilot letting down into Reno? Sometimes you just
can't prevent bad things from happening.

Shawn, if you're so sure you can avoid using it, why not fly this season
without a parachute?

Different strokes for different folks.
You read too much into my post.
You said "You've got to think worst case scenario, and then decide what
you need to survive until you can get rescued or rescue yourself."
It sounded as though you meant we should be prepared for any eventuality
we can conceive of. Perhaps I read too much into your post.
I do prepare myself and the glider for a day or so's stay in the
Colorado mountains I fly in. It won't all come with me if I bail out.
The stats are clear, if you survive to the ground, you've survived by
far the most perilous part of the experience. I don't see a small
survival kit and a hook knife on the harness as unreasonable, but beyond
that I feel there are better places to spend safety dollars. E.g. more
training time, transponder, ELT.

Shawn

Shawn,

I apologize for misunderstanding: thought you were saying to ignore survival
in favor of accident prevention. My bad, and I'm sorry.

I have a two tier survival strategy.
1) I wear a survival vest under my parachute (in the military I used to
have one of these on all the time, so I am used to the concept), packed with
what I consider either "essentials" or very small, lightweight things that I
would want in any circumstance. Working on getting a camelback as part of
that rig, without compromising the ability of the chute to open (obviously,
on the front somewhere).
2) On board the aircraft, but not attached to me (i.e., won't go with me
during the jump), is additional water and other things I might want in the
likely chance that the aircraft fuselage is available to me after the dust
settles. Obviously, all that is available in a pure landout (no chute use).

When I said that you have to consider a worst case scenario, I meant exactly
that: CONSIDER it, and then you have to decide if you want to cover all
those possibilities. What risks are worth the effort, in other words. You
may decide that it is possible that you will have to defend yourself against
grizzly bears, but you may also decide not to take a firearm capable of that
with you (because the risk is small but the size and weight are too great.
But you've considered it.

Again, sorry for the misunderstanding. Good luck out there in Colorado.
Bullwinkle

No offense taken. You remind me I have a photographers vest I got years
ago for carrying things in the cockpit when I flew club ships. Now that
I don't have my own glider any more (for now), I'll have to get it back
out and re-equip it.
Think I'll leave the shot gun at home though ;-)


Shawn