"Full length"

What Steve said. Also, you are wrong in thinking that the controller can't
clear anyone else for takeoff until you have turned off onto a taxiway. If
the airplane taking off is a similar type to yours (light single, for
example), all the controller needs befor issuing the takeoff clearance is
3000 feet of separation. Controller's discretion, of course.

Bob Gardner


"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...

"buttman" wrote in message
ups.com...

What does it mean when a controller says "Cleared for landing full
length", or "cleared for takeoff full length"?

I've never heard this said until I started flying out of this airport
I'm based at now which has a 11,800 ft. runway. Does it mean he wants
me to land further down towards the middle of the runway?

In the past, I've always disregarded the phrase "full length" as quasi-
meaningless "supplemental" information (such as "#2 for landing").
I've made about 20 landings so far here, and 3 of them resulted in a
plane behind me having to do a go-around, so maybe there is something
more to it.

But then again, why would it even matter. I'm I'm still on the runway,
the controller can't clear anyone else for takeoff anyways until I
turn off the taxiway... Can someone shed some light on this?


"Runway two four full length position and hold", and "Runway two four full
length cleared for takeoff." are used when aircraft are departing from the
approach end and also from intersections. "Cleared for landing full
length" is nonstandard phraseology and only the issuing controller can
tell you what it means. My best guess is he means all of the runway is
available to you, which is also what "Cleared to land" means.

"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
. ..

What Steve said. Also, you are wrong in thinking that the controller can't
clear anyone else for takeoff until you have turned off onto a taxiway. If
the airplane taking off is a similar type to yours (light single, for
example), all the controller needs befor issuing the takeoff clearance is
3000 feet of separation. Controller's discretion, of course.


Uhh, no. In that situation, departing aircraft behind landing aircraft, the
landing aircraft must taxi clear of the runway before the departing aircraft
begins to roll.


http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraff...309.html#3-9-6

Yep. Recently at Naples, FL they shot me out between landing aircraft.

Tower wanted me "up on the hold short line with my hand on the throttles
ready to go, absolutely no delay, do NOT stop on the runway when I clear
your takeoff!" I watched a 172 land long, miss the first intersection while
Tower told me to stand by pending the 172 clearing the runway, again,
"absolutely no delay when cleared for takeoff, standby."

My head was on a swivel watching the 172 head for the second intersection
and at the same time watching another aircraft on what looked to be about a
2 mile final. Tower gave me the word just as the 172 cleared the runway and
we were cleared for an immediate takeoff. Once we were rolling, the landing
traffic behind me was cleared to land.

Jim

Slightly OT: Is there a difference between the meaning of "clear to land"
between US and Europe?

The reason I ask is because while watching the traffic flow at FLL, I got
the impression landing clearance for airplane X was given even though there
were still other planes ahead, as soon as ATC is sure the separation is big
enough for safety. In contrast, up here ATC gives the landing clearance only
when the previous plane has actually vacated the runway.

- Nils,
at 60 degrees north

Nils Rostedt schrieb:

enough for safety. In contrast, up here ATC gives the landing clearance only
when the previous plane has actually vacated the runway.

I don't know the exact regulation, but I remember having once received
the clearance to land when I was number 4 and had not even reached the
downwind yet. This was in Germany, and I was pretty surprized. I suspect
they moniored me and would have withdrawn the clearance if needed.

In article ,
Nils Rostedt wrote:
Slightly OT: Is there a difference between the meaning of "clear to land"
between US and Europe?

The reason I ask is because while watching the traffic flow at FLL, I got
the impression landing clearance for airplane X was given even though there
were still other planes ahead, as soon as ATC is sure the separation is big
enough for safety. In contrast, up here ATC gives the landing clearance only
when the previous plane has actually vacated the runway.


Your understanding of the way it works in the US is correct. ATC
can issue the landing clearance on the expectation that the runway
will be free when you get there.

I've been "number 12, cleared to land" at Palo Alto (KPAO), and on
a different day, heard someone else get "number 15, cleared to
land". When I was number 12, only one plane before me had to go
around for traffic on the runway, which isn't bad at all.

John
--
John Clear - http://www.clear-prop.org/

"John Clear" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Nils Rostedt wrote:
Slightly OT: Is there a difference between the meaning of "clear to land"
between US and Europe?

The reason I ask is because while watching the traffic flow at FLL, I got
the impression landing clearance for airplane X was given even though
there
were still other planes ahead, as soon as ATC is sure the separation is
big
enough for safety. In contrast, up here ATC gives the landing clearance
only
when the previous plane has actually vacated the runway.


Your understanding of the way it works in the US is correct. ATC
can issue the landing clearance on the expectation that the runway
will be free when you get there.

I've been "number 12, cleared to land" at Palo Alto (KPAO), and on
a different day, heard someone else get "number 15, cleared to
land". When I was number 12, only one plane before me had to go
around for traffic on the runway, which isn't bad at all.

Normally in the UK only one aircraft is cleared to land and that is when the
aircraft is on final approach and the runway is clear of any preceding
aircraft.

An aircraft on final approach with one ahead is asked to continue until
cleared to land or he calls missed approach.

"Nils Rostedt" wrote

Slightly OT: Is there a difference between the meaning of "clear to land"
between US and Europe?

Although I do not remember the specifics, the answer is yes, from what other
people have said in this forum.
--
Jim in NC

"Nils Rostedt" wrote in message
. fi...

Slightly OT: Is there a difference between the meaning of "clear to land"
between US and Europe?

The reason I ask is because while watching the traffic flow at FLL, I got
the impression landing clearance for airplane X was given even though
there were still other planes ahead, as soon as ATC is sure the separation
is big enough for safety. In contrast, up here ATC gives the landing
clearance only when the previous plane has actually vacated the runway.


I don't know about Europe, in the US landing clearance to succeeding
aircraft in a landing sequence need not be withheld if the controller
observes the positions of the aircraft and determines that prescribed runway
separation will exist when the aircraft cross the landing threshold.