How low can you go?

(Walt BJ) wrote:

Here's where we'll see the difference between the multi drivers and
the single engine types. And how the instructors decided who went
which path in training.
I suppose now that a lot of fighters do have two engines my
terminology is not PC - but hell that's what it used to be. Okay -
fighters and targets - is that any better? After all, that definition
has a long history and was originated by a real expert. Anyway, "safe"
to a fighter-type mind is anything you can do without killing
yourself. To the other guys 'safe' doesn't include doing things just
for the hell of it. And fly the airplane to its max? Not a chance. If
I've offended anyone, gee, too bad, but then I am a fighter pilot
(retired), my mind-set hasn't changed, and won't, and I don't really
give a damn what other people think of that.
Walt Bj

Well said. As you are a former F-104 jock, I have a question for you.
There are two privately-owned -104's based locally out of
Clearwater-St. Petersburg Int'l airport just three miles or so from my
house (see: http://www.starfighters.net/). Sitting here at my desk,
whenever I hear that eerie J-79 "howl" I literally run outside to
catch a glimpse of the Zipper(s). I've noticed that the sleek jets
rarely fly with any external wing tanks, and am just curious as to how
long an F-104 can remain aloft (e.g: range?) on internal fuel alone?
Assuming the pilot doesn't use the AB except for takeoff.

-Mike Marron

Clean Zipper - about 1+40 and 800 nautical is a good guess. Winds,
ATC, and pilot technique can change that but not by much. That's
normal flying - a max endurance profile would give you a little more
time aloft but it'd be a boring flight stooging along at max L/D,
especially the idle glide descending to your destination. ATC would
probably screw that up letting airliners go in front of you. BTW this
is observing USAF VFR min fuel - 20 minutes (800#)at destination.
Walt BJ

(Walt BJ) wrote:

Clean Zipper - about 1+40 and 800 nautical is a good guess. Winds,
ATC, and pilot technique can change that but not by much. That's
normal flying - a max endurance profile would give you a little more
time aloft but it'd be a boring flight stooging along at max L/D,
especially the idle glide descending to your destination. ATC would
probably screw that up letting airliners go in front of you. BTW this
is observing USAF VFR min fuel - 20 minutes (800#)at destination.
Walt BJ

Gracias. That's longer/furthur than I thought considering how slim
and sleek the airframe is and wet wings are obviously out of the
question. Where is the internal fuel tank located?

-Mike Marron

All in the fuselage. The A model holds 5824 pounds, 754 gallons usable
fuel, in four interconnected cells. It is fueled 'over the wing'
through two ports. The auxiliary cell is forward, holds 143 gallons
and is burned first via a tranfer pump. This is for CG control. FWIW
this aux fuel does not show on the fuel quantity indicator. The
forward main cell (491 gal) and the aft cells (2x36 gal, 1x190 gal)
burn down equally. The aft center 190gal cell is between the engine
air inlet ducts. The aft right and left 36 gal cells fit around the
air inlet ducts outboard of the aft center cell. The four electric
boost pumps are in the forward main cell and feed the engine-driven
boost pump. The B model did not have the forward (aux) fuel cell and
was therefore short on fuel and so we normally carried tip tanks (or
2xAIM9 plus pylon tanks) on it. There is an option in the G model and
I think the CF104 for a 122 gallon cell in the gun bay. Further info =
pylon tank usable fuel 195 each; tiptanks usable fuel 170 each. FWIW
filling with JP5, due to greater density, gave 6050 internal fuel,
about 4% more. Also FWIW a four tanked F104 could out range a
three-tank F4 considerably - 3:00 hours and 1500 miles practicable by
dropping externals as emptied, with another 300 miles at cruise
altitude to zero fuel remaining.
Walt BJ