Glider computers - what's important?

Mike,

I reread my post but and never saw the word worthless. But now I
will go to my corner and look up the word sufferance.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

On Mar 8, 11:26 am, "Mike" wrote:
First of all I did not bring up how great free programs were- you
brought up how worthless they are-if you care to check your post. I
mentioned however that XCSOAR is a good program -which it is.

Come on Richard, tell us point by point how superior See You is over
XCSOAR . Prove your point to us-that it is a worthless program-you
know....as you say that it is worth what you pay for it.

Mike

On Mar 8, 11:58 am, "Richard" wrote:



Mike,

First of all you brought up the issue of how great the free programs
are - compared to what? WinPilot and SeeYou simulators are free,
both can be downloaded from my website for evaluation, you only need
the passwords to have a hassel free connection to your GPS.

My biased opinion is the SeeYou and WinPilot are as easy or easier to
use than the free programs, they will be supported in the future, they
allow the new pilot all the features from just flying around the
patch, to badges, records and contest.
The real question is if you own a sailplane how much did you pay for
it and is the cost of one of these programs significant? If it is, I
would suggest a chart with mileage and altutude circles is more cost
effective, I believe you are still required to carry a chart.

I also provide support to those that are considering purchasing
WinPilot or SeeYou from Craggy Aero.

Richardwww.craggyaero.com

On Mar 8, 10:12 am, "Mike" wrote:

Why not do the comparison for us Richard? It is your question after
all. I would like to hear your unbiased report.

Mike

On Mar 8, 10:25 am, "Richard" wrote:

The question is have you compared the free programs with SeeYou or
WinPilot. We would all like to hear your comparison.

Richardwww.craggyaero.com

On Mar 8, 9:16 am, "Mike" wrote:

XCSOAR is a very good program that is easy to use. It takes about one
evening to understand using the "Quick Start" guide in the manual.

Mike

On Mar 8, 9:31 am, "Michael Huber" wrote:

"Richard" wrote

6. Free is a very good price, but generally you get what you pay for,
if anyone finds this not true please let us all know so we all can all
get this free stuff. The best free thing I have found is the SeeYou
Connect Me program.

? GPS-LOG and XCSOAR are free, I´ve never tried XCSOAR, but
GPS-LOG is a great



software.

Michael- Hide quoted text -

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On Mar 8, 12:45 pm, "Richard" wrote:
Mike,

I reread my post but and never saw the word worthless. But now I
will go to my corner and look up the word sufferance.

Richardwww.craggyaero.com

On Mar 8, 11:26 am, "Mike" wrote:



First of all I did not bring up how great free programs were- you
brought up how worthless they are-if you care to check your post. I
mentioned however that XCSOAR is a good program -which it is.

Come on Richard, tell us point by point how superior See You is over
XCSOAR . Prove your point to us-that it is a worthless program-you
know....as you say that it is worth what you pay for it.

Mike

On Mar 8, 11:58 am, "Richard" wrote:

Mike,

First of all you brought up the issue of how great the free programs
are - compared to what? WinPilot and SeeYou simulators are free,
both can be downloaded from my website for evaluation, you only need
the passwords to have a hassel free connection to your GPS.

My biased opinion is the SeeYou and WinPilot are as easy or easier to
use than the free programs, they will be supported in the future, they
allow the new pilot all the features from just flying around the
patch, to badges, records and contest.
The real question is if you own a sailplane how much did you pay for
it and is the cost of one of these programs significant? If it is, I
would suggest a chart with mileage and altutude circles is more cost
effective, I believe you are still required to carry a chart.

I also provide support to those that are considering purchasing
WinPilot or SeeYou from Craggy Aero.

Richardwww.craggyaero.com

On Mar 8, 10:12 am, "Mike" wrote:

Why not do the comparison for us Richard? It is your question after
all. I would like to hear your unbiased report.

Mike

On Mar 8, 10:25 am, "Richard" wrote:

The question is have you compared the free programs with SeeYou or
WinPilot. We would all like to hear your comparison.

Richardwww.craggyaero.com

On Mar 8, 9:16 am, "Mike" wrote:

XCSOAR is a very good program that is easy to use. It takes about one
evening to understand using the "Quick Start" guide in the manual.

Mike

On Mar 8, 9:31 am, "Michael Huber" wrote:

"Richard" wrote

6. Free is a very good price, but generally you get what you pay for,
if anyone finds this not true please let us all know so we all can all
get this free stuff. The best free thing I have found is the SeeYou
Connect Me program.

? GPS-LOG and XCSOAR are free, I´ve never tried XCSOAR, but
GPS-LOG is a great

software.

Michael- Hide quoted text -
You are funny Richard. Lets see your unbiased comparison.
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Mike wrote "You are funny Richard. Lets see your unbiased comparison"

I will come out of my corner for one more round.

Unbiased! Mike you are looking for something in this newgroup that
is almost nonexistent especially from a sailplane equipment dealer.

And I haven't often been accused of being funny, thanks.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

On Mar 8, 12:42 pm, "Richard" wrote:
Mike wrote "You are funny Richard. Lets see your unbiased comparison"

I will come out of my corner for one more round.

Unbiased! Mike you are looking for something in this newgroup that
is almost nonexistent especially from a sailplane equipment dealer.

And I haven't often been accused of being funny, thanks.

Richardwww.craggyaero.com

RE-ENGAGING:
Rather than talk about which glide computer program is best... what I
need to know is: What INFORMATION/FEATURES do you experienced guys
find MOST useful in XC soaring. I've done only a very little XC (one
flight, Tonopah - Austin - Tonopah), and what I wanted most during
that flight was an easily interpreted bearing and required glideslope
to known good runways/landlouts. I know that once I have that, I'll
start thinking of other features that would be helpful. The question
is, what features do you find most useful?
thermal optimizer?
FAI triangle thing?
Final glide calculator?
Thermal history?
........

BTW Richard: Loved your Ventus landing!

Jim




Optimizing speed for a task isn't a top priority, I have a relief
system ;-)

RE-ENGAGING:
Rather than talk about which glide computer program is best... what I
need to know is: What INFORMATION/FEATURES do you experienced guys
find MOST useful in XC soaring. I've done only a very little XC (one
flight, Tonopah - Austin - Tonopah), and what I wanted most during
that flight was an easily interpreted bearing and required glideslope
to known good runways/landlouts. I know that once I have that, I'll
start thinking of other features that would be helpful. The question
is, what features do you find most useful?
thermal optimizer?
FAI triangle thing?
Final glide calculator?
Thermal history?
.......

For me, I want to know in real-time exactly how far I can glide in all
directions computed from my polar, McCready setting, ballast, bugs, wind and
terrain elevation. I don't want a list of airports or airports with green
or magenta circles. I want my glide footprint on the moving map. This
tells me a lot about options, alternates and helps with strategy. So far as
I know, only two programs have implemented this GPS_LOG WinCE and XC-Soar.
I use GPS_LOG WinCE which does a better job of it.

While I'm at it, I'd like this feature on SeeYou animationl. That would
make it easier to see exactly what the pilots options were as the flight
progressed.

Bill Daniels

Hi,

I want my glide footprint on the moving map.

This depends very much on accurate terrain elevation data. I am not sure
how good the publicly available data is. It does paint pretty pictures
in any case.

Elevations for airfields are very accurate and those for charted landouts
at least at GPS-accuracy.

Ciao, MM
--
Marian Aldenhövel, Rosenhain 23, 53123 Bonn
http://www.marian-aldenhoevel.de
"Success is the happy feeling you get between the time you
do something and the time you tell a woman what you did."

I'm using an elevation database accurate to less than one meter on a 100m
grid. That's far more that accurate enough to provide a glide footprint. I
choose not to display this as a visible map since it make more important
data hard to read and takes processing power. I just display airports,
turnpoints and the glide footprint.

Bill Daniels

"Marian Aldenhövel" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I want my glide footprint on the moving map.

This depends very much on accurate terrain elevation data. I am not sure
how good the publicly available data is. It does paint pretty pictures
in any case.

Elevations for airfields are very accurate and those for charted landouts
at least at GPS-accuracy.

Ciao, MM
--
Marian Aldenhövel, Rosenhain 23, 53123 Bonn
http://www.marian-aldenhoevel.de
"Success is the happy feeling you get between the time you
do something and the time you tell a woman what you did."

RE-ENGAGING:
Rather than talk about which glide computer program is best... what I
need to know is: What INFORMATION/FEATURES do you experienced guys
find MOST useful in XC soaring.

The most useful thing for me is instant access to safety glide
information. By that I mean knowing what safe landing sites are in
range, the glide margin available, and where they are relative to
current position. Knowing whether it is safe to push on and, if not,
knowing which way to divert, makes a huge difference to cross country
flying.


Andy

I would also want a user-definable reserve height of maybe 500ft when I
got there.=20
especially as this is different from a final glide to a known landing
spot
=20
ie consider wind, polar, mcready, balast, bugs and reserve height.
=20
For those in the mountains, a computation that can cope with corners
round ridges would be nice, but that is probably step 2.
=20
ps: I would not plan to use my own "iron thermal" unless over landable
terrain
=20
=20
Rory
=20
Subject: Using a "GLIDE footprint"
Author: Andy mailto:Andy

Date/Time: 14:40 12 March 2007

________________________________

On Mar 12, 5:08 am, "Bill Daniels" wrote:

It simply looks in 48 directions around the compass and computes the
maximum
glide in each direction considering wind, polar, McCready, balast and
bugs.

On Mar 8, 11:45 am, "Richard" wrote:
Mike,

I reread my post but and never saw the word worthless. But now I
will go to my corner and look up the word sufferance.

Richardwww.craggyaero.com

On Mar 8, 11:26 am, "Mike" wrote:

First of all I did not bring up how great free programs were- you
brought up how worthless they are-if you care to check your post. I
mentioned however that XCSOAR is a good program -which it is.

Come on Richard, tell us point by point how superior See You is over
XCSOAR . Prove your point to us-that it is a worthless program-you
know....as you say that it is worth what you pay for it.

Mike

On Mar 8, 11:58 am, "Richard" wrote:

Mike,

First of all you brought up the issue of how great the free programs
are - compared to what? WinPilot and SeeYou simulators are free,
both can be downloaded from my website for evaluation, you only need
the passwords to have a hassel free connection to your GPS.

My biased opinion is the SeeYou and WinPilot are as easy or easier to
use than the free programs, they will be supported in the future, they
allow the new pilot all the features from just flying around the
patch, to badges, records and contest.
The real question is if you own a sailplane how much did you pay for
it and is the cost of one of these programs significant? If it is, I
would suggest a chart with mileage and altutude circles is more cost
effective, I believe you are still required to carry a chart.

I also provide support to those that are considering purchasing
WinPilot or SeeYou from Craggy Aero.

Richardwww.craggyaero.com

On Mar 8, 10:12 am, "Mike" wrote:

Why not do the comparison for us Richard? It is your question after
all. I would like to hear your unbiased report.

Mike

On Mar 8, 10:25 am, "Richard" wrote:

The question is have you compared the free programs with SeeYou or
WinPilot. We would all like to hear your comparison.

Richardwww.craggyaero.com

On Mar 8, 9:16 am, "Mike" wrote:

XCSOAR is a very good program that is easy to use. It takes about one
evening to understand using the "Quick Start" guide in the manual.

Mike

On Mar 8, 9:31 am, "Michael Huber" wrote:

"Richard" wrote

6. Free is a very good price, but generally you get what you pay for,
if anyone finds this not true please let us all know so we all can all
get this free stuff. The best free thing I have found is the SeeYou
Connect Me program.

? GPS-LOG and XCSOAR are free, I´ve never tried XCSOAR, but
GPS-LOG is a great

software.

Michael- Hide quoted text -

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To All:

I have in my iPAQ GN II and WinPilot that my buddy Richard sold me.
Richard is a very nice guy and some of you have misinterpreted his
posting. Now, as I said, I have GN II and WinPilot and I fly with GN
II...why? because I like the simplicity of GN II and the information
available on the screen of my PDA. The WinPilot has a bunch of
features that I don't think I'll ever use or need. There is simply to
much information displayed. But again, we are creatures of habit and I
think that we fly with what we feel most comfortable with. But then
again, download the free simulator and try it. See what you like and
make your own mind. Don't relay 100% on opinions of other pilots.

Jacek
Washington State