What do you do in the real world?

ArtP writes:

You might have to explain why you accepted the route if you knew you
could not fly it.

Many routes will eventually intersect terrain if there are mountains nearby.
Nevertheless, you might well accept the route if you expect to be given a new
heading or altitude before you get near terrain. If your radio fails,
however, the situation changes.

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"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
ArtP writes:

You might have to explain why you accepted the route if you knew you
could not fly it.

Many routes will eventually intersect terrain if there are mountains
nearby.
Nevertheless, you might well accept the route if you expect to be given a
new
heading or altitude before you get near terrain. If your radio fails,
however, the situation changes.

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You can't file or accept a route you can't fly just because you're sure of a
re-route. You have to assume that you will lose comm shortly after takeoff
and fly the whole thing, as filed, minimim altitudes included.

--
-------------------------------
Travis
Lake N3094P
PWK

Travis Marlatte wrote:

You can't file or accept a route you can't fly just because you're sure of a
re-route. You have to assume that you will lose comm shortly after takeoff
and fly the whole thing, as filed, minimim altitudes included.


You're arguing IFR with someone who never leaves his bedroom.

Travis Marlatte writes:

You can't file or accept a route you can't fly just because you're sure of a
re-route.

Sure you can. Aircraft do it all the time. For example, you can be assigned
a route and altitude from the West Coast (of the U.S.) that will take you
right into the side of a mountain if you continue on it long enough; but you
accept it anyway because you know that ATC will change your heading and
altitude long before that happens.

You have to assume that you will lose comm shortly after takeoff
and fly the whole thing, as filed, minimim altitudes included.

But what if you are given vectors and altitude well after take-off, and these
will _eventually_ lead you into a mountain, and you lose communications before
ATC can change them? Do you return to your original flight plan, no matter
what kind of altitude or course changes are required? Do you fly the last
vectors you were given, and veer away from them only when it becomes unsafe to
fly them (and which way do you go?)? What do you do?

If you receive vectors very different from your filed route in crowded
airspace and you then lose your radio, trying to return to your originally
filed route might be dangerous. At the same time, you can't indefinitely
follow vectors that will take you into terrain. If you follow the latter
vectors, at some point you must deviate from them to avoid terrain--which way
do you go then?

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Mxsmanic wrote:
Travis Marlatte writes:


You can't file or accept a route you can't fly just because you're sure of a
re-route.


Sure you can. Aircraft do it all the time. For example, you can be assigned
a route and altitude from the West Coast (of the U.S.) that will take you
right into the side of a mountain if you continue on it long enough; but you
accept it anyway because you know that ATC will change your heading and
altitude long before that happens.


You have to assume that you will lose comm shortly after takeoff
and fly the whole thing, as filed, minimim altitudes included.


But what if you are given vectors and altitude well after take-off, and these
will _eventually_ lead you into a mountain, and you lose communications before
ATC can change them? Do you return to your original flight plan, no matter
what kind of altitude or course changes are required? Do you fly the last
vectors you were given, and veer away from them only when it becomes unsafe to
fly them (and which way do you go?)? What do you do?

If you receive vectors very different from your filed route in crowded
airspace and you then lose your radio, trying to return to your originally
filed route might be dangerous. At the same time, you can't indefinitely
follow vectors that will take you into terrain. If you follow the latter
vectors, at some point you must deviate from them to avoid terrain--which way
do you go then?


Don't worry about it. Keep playing the msfs game. It is beyond you.
However, if you feel like you really need to know you can pick up the
FARs and the AIM and read it. It is in plain English.

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Mxsmanic wrote:
ArtP writes:

You might have to explain why you accepted the route if you knew you
could not fly it.

Many routes will eventually intersect terrain if there are mountains nearby.
Nevertheless, you might well accept the route if you expect to be given a new
heading or altitude before you get near terrain. If your radio fails,
however, the situation changes.


Radio failure has nothing to do with what the OP asked. He
asked about the routing should he have been IMC. ArtP's inference still
stands. If you are IMC and accepted a route that you may not have been
able to fly, you will have some explaining to do about why you accepted
a route that could put you into that mountainside.

BL.
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Brad Littlejohn | Email:
Unix Systems Administrator, |
Web + NewsMaster, BOFH.. Smeghead! | http://www.wizard.com/~tyketto
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A Guy Called Tyketto wrote:

Radio failure has nothing to do with what the OP asked. He
asked about the routing should he have been IMC. ArtP's inference still
stands. If you are IMC and accepted a route that you may not have been
able to fly,

He could fly it just fine, it was a vector. ATC does it all the time
and in reality isn't a route at all as there is no non radar component
to it.


you will have some explaining to do about why you accepted
a route that could put you into that mountainside.

Hogwash. ATC would never vector an airplane if every aircraft refused
because at some point you would hit something. The answer to the
question is if you lose comm you take care of yourself. It is an
emergency situation if terrain is a factor. You do what ever you have
to to avoid terrain/obstructions.

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Newps wrote:


A Guy Called Tyketto wrote:

Radio failure has nothing to do with what the OP asked. He
asked about the routing should he have been IMC. ArtP's inference still
stands. If you are IMC and accepted a route that you may not have been
able to fly,

He could fly it just fine, it was a vector. ATC does it all the time
and in reality isn't a route at all as there is no non radar component
to it.

If it was a vector, that changes the whole story. If it was a
clearance that he wasn't going to be able to accept, then there would
be some questions.

you will have some explaining to do about why you accepted
a route that could put you into that mountainside.

Hogwash. ATC would never vector an airplane if every aircraft refused
because at some point you would hit something. The answer to the
question is if you lose comm you take care of yourself. It is an
emergency situation if terrain is a factor. You do what ever you have
to to avoid terrain/obstructions.

Oh, I agree. ATC would never vector a plane like that, don't
get me wrong. But as the OP had mentioned, if he accepted a routing
that he believed he couldn't fly and the weather was IMC, the question
would have to be asked on why he accepted that routing in the first
place.

BL.
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Brad Littlejohn | Email:
Unix Systems Administrator, |
Web + NewsMaster, BOFH.. Smeghead! | http://www.wizard.com/~tyketto
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A Guy Called Tyketto wrote:


If it was a vector, that changes the whole story.

That is the story, the original basis for the question...what do you do
if while on a vector you go Nordo.




Oh, I agree. ATC would never vector a plane like that, don't
get me wrong.



ATC vectors like that everyday. You can't get into Denver, Salt Lake,
Boise, Kalispell, Butte, Missoula and a lot of other places efficiently
without being vectored. And if you go Nordo you better realize it
because you are well below the terrain within 20 miles of you.

In article ,
Newps wrote:

A Guy Called Tyketto wrote:


If it was a vector, that changes the whole story.

That is the story, the original basis for the question...what do you do
if while on a vector you go Nordo.

Actually, it wasn't a vector, it was an off-airway direct clearance.
Similar to a vector in some respects, but not the same thing.

rg