TPAS and Transponder - Blind Spot

FYI, all MRX units have an audio for alert, the new units have an audio
output for use with headsets or intercoms added (optional)
tim
Please visit the Wings & Wheels website at www.wingsandwheels.com

wrote in message
oups.com...
BTW I had not poked around the Zaon website in a while and I now
noticed that they have an installation guide what talks about a panel
install kit and "audio enabled" MRX modules that give audio out. Also
they talk about multi-antenna installs. They definitly are not afraid
of getting the MRX antenna too close to the transponder antenna, they
spec only a few feet minimum distance between externally mounted MRX
and tranponder antennas. So I might have to take back my previous
concern about transponder antennas being really close to the MRX
antenna.

See
http://www.zaonflight.com/component/...id,8/Itemid,43

Cheers


Darryl

On Mar 10, 5:37 pm, "jcarlyle" wrote:
Darryl, I admit I oversimplified things. One of the reasons was that I
deal with analog ultrasonic signals produced by nature, not digital
pulse trains from transponders, so it made a first cut analysis easier
for me.

Hopefully Zaon will be willing to tell Eric what they're really doing
inside the box. Since I own a MRX and am planning on installing a
transponder, I'd be more than happy if my analysis at the start of
this thread is wrong!

Meanwhile, it sounds like you understand transponders, RF and digital
processing. Can you refer me to something on the web that would
explain the basics of how partially overlapped pulse trains are
differentiated? Using a stand-alone detector on analog signals of
similar frequency and fairly similar shape, I know I can't detect a
second signal 20-30 dB below an overlapping signal - so the
possibility you hint of for digital signals is outside of my
knowledge. Thanks!

-John

On Mar 10, 1:34 pm, "
wrote:

Also it is worth remembering the Zaon PCAs devices are not just
"blanking" the receiver during the local transponder reply. The Zaons
are reading and doing an altitude decode of the local transponder
signal and using that if possible for the altitude reference rather
than the built in altimeter. How good their RF front end and post RF
digital processing is will determine how well they can differentiate
partially overlapping pulse trains from the local and other
transponders. And you better believe they have to do this since the
most nieve approach of "blanking" during the entire ~20us transponder
pulse train (ignoring the ident pulse) would give a dead zone of
~6km. I'd love to see a schematic.. :-)

Like other posters I suspect this not much of an issue in practice
because of multipe illuminations from SSR, TCAS etc. However one thing
with some of the funkier glider tranponder antenna installs is that
the PCAS may be seeing much more RF power from the local transponder
than the designer expected, especially for situations like with RF
transparent fiberglass fueslages and maybe a less than great ground
plane betwen the PCAS and antenna, tranponder antennas mounted in the
cockpit etc. In which case maybe the dead zone is larger because of
the Zaon's reduced ability to detect overlapping pulse trains.

Darryl

Tim

Your back - you must have finished throwing out all those transponders
you are not going to sell :-)

Thanks for degarbling my post, yes I meant an electrical audio out for
an headset/audio panel

Do you know if current Zaon MRX systems (few months old) can be
upgraded to have the headset/audio panel audio out? Is the volume of
that output independently adjustable?

Thanks


Darryl

--

BTW I also misstyped unidirectional when I meant omnidirectional when
talking about TCAS.


On Mar 13, 9:00 am, "Tim Mara" wrote:
FYI, all MRX units have an audio for alert, the new units have an audio
output for use with headsets or intercoms added (optional)
tim
Please visit the Wings & Wheels website atwww.wingsandwheels.com

wrote in message

oups.com...

BTW I had not poked around the Zaon website in a while and I now
noticed that they have an installation guide what talks about a panel
install kit and "audio enabled" MRX modules that give audio out. Also
they talk about multi-antenna installs. They definitly are not afraid
of getting the MRX antenna too close to the transponder antenna, they
spec only a few feet minimum distance between externally mounted MRX
and tranponder antennas. So I might have to take back my previous
concern about transponder antennas being really close to the MRX
antenna.

See
http://www.zaonflight.com/component/...ask,cat_view/g...

Cheers

Darryl

On Mar 10, 5:37 pm, "jcarlyle" wrote:
Darryl, I admit I oversimplified things. One of the reasons was that I
deal with analog ultrasonic signals produced by nature, not digital
pulse trains from transponders, so it made a first cut analysis easier
for me.

Hopefully Zaon will be willing to tell Eric what they're really doing
inside the box. Since I own a MRX and am planning on installing a
transponder, I'd be more than happy if my analysis at the start of
this thread is wrong!

Meanwhile, it sounds like you understand transponders, RF and digital
processing. Can you refer me to something on the web that would
explain the basics of how partially overlapped pulse trains are
differentiated? Using a stand-alone detector on analog signals of
similar frequency and fairly similar shape, I know I can't detect a
second signal 20-30 dB below an overlapping signal - so the
possibility you hint of for digital signals is outside of my
knowledge. Thanks!

-John

On Mar 10, 1:34 pm, "
wrote:

Also it is worth remembering the Zaon PCAs devices are not just
"blanking" the receiver during the local transponder reply. The Zaons
are reading and doing an altitude decode of the local transponder
signal and using that if possible for the altitude reference rather
than the built in altimeter. How good their RF front end and post RF
digital processing is will determine how well they can differentiate
partially overlapping pulse trains from the local and other
transponders. And you better believe they have to do this since the
most nieve approach of "blanking" during the entire ~20us transponder
pulse train (ignoring the ident pulse) would give a dead zone of
~6km. I'd love to see a schematic.. :-)

Like other posters I suspect this not much of an issue in practice
because of multipe illuminations from SSR, TCAS etc. However one thing
with some of the funkier glider tranponder antenna installs is that
the PCAS may be seeing much more RF power from the local transponder
than the designer expected, especially for situations like with RF
transparent fiberglass fueslages and maybe a less than great ground
plane betwen the PCAS and antenna, tranponder antennas mounted in the
cockpit etc. In which case maybe the dead zone is larger because of
the Zaon's reduced ability to detect overlapping pulse trains.

Darryl