An American Who Wished Death on Our Servicemembers

Gooneybird wrote:

John Ahlstrom wrote:
Michael Wise wrote:

How about:
The constant loss of U.S. soldiers in Iraq -- after the war is
"won" -- is a tragedy. However, if this is what it takes to
bring a free and democratic government to Iraq, the sacrifice
is justified.

Just out of curiosity, which of the following nations, all of whom have a
desperate need for a free and democratic government, is on our list of
sacrifices to be made?

Saudi Arabia
Iran
Syria
Lebanon
Pakistan
North Korea
China
Cuba
Egypt
Libya
plus half or more of the African continent

Is it really our national function in life to sacrifice American lives in order
to dish up free and democratic governments all over the world, sometimes to
people who don't even want it or wouldn't know what to do with it if they had
it?

It could be a very positive national interest item to have one of the most
important of Arab Muslim nations a democracy. It could dramatically effect
the entire region for the better as far as our national interests go.

If that's what Iraq was really about, we'd be wise to invest our money in
mortuary stocks because there's going to be an endless and ongoing supply of
business for them from our sacrificial lambs.

Possibly, but I don't think necessarily so. Jury is still out as to whether
resistance to anything American (let alone "Western") is stronger than the
benefits of democratic and free market government that takes some patience to
implement in the region.

I still think the whole exercise was worth a try.


SMH

"Stephen Harding" wrote in message
...
Gooneybird wrote:

(Snip)

Is it really our national function in life to sacrifice American lives in
order
to dish up free and democratic governments all over the world, sometimes to
people who don't even want it or wouldn't know what to do with it if they
had
it?

It could be a very positive national interest item to have one of the most
important of Arab Muslim nations a democracy. It could dramatically effect
the entire region for the better as far as our national interests go.

It could, and by the same token, it might become an endless morass from which we
would only be able to extricate ourselves at huge cost to our national
reputation, the respect we get as a nation from others, and the esteem in which
others hold us. You probably didn't notice it, but the one country I left out
of my list of potential targets was the one we should have learned something of
value from, but apparently didn't.....Viet Nam. We learned painful and
unpalatable lessons from that experience (which I, incidentally, completely
supported at the time), and I'm more than a little distressed to note that those
lessons seem to be disappearing behind the fog of political idealism.

If that's what Iraq was really about, we'd be wise to invest our money in
mortuary stocks because there's going to be an endless and ongoing supply of
business for them from our sacrificial lambs.

Possibly, but I don't think necessarily so. Jury is still out as to whether
resistance to anything American (let alone "Western") is stronger than the
benefits of democratic and free market government that takes some patience to
implement in the region.

I still think the whole exercise was worth a try.

I think the grieving families of the past and future casualties we've had and
will continue to have in Iraq might possibly think otherwise, particularly
those amongst them who never gave a rat's ass for the Iraqi people in the past,
if indeed they had even heard of Iraq at all.

Perhaps I need to remind you that our last major effort along those lines that
didn't involve Iraq resulted in our abandonment of our peacekeeping efforts in
Lebanon with nothing of value to show for the several hundred casualties we
sustained at the Beirut International Airport.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion.

George Z.

"Gooneybird" wrote in message
...

"Stephen Harding" wrote in message
...
Gooneybird wrote:

(Snip)

Is it really our national function in life to sacrifice American lives
in
order
to dish up free and democratic governments all over the world,
sometimes to
people who don't even want it or wouldn't know what to do with it if
they
had
it?

It could be a very positive national interest item to have one of the
most
important of Arab Muslim nations a democracy. It could dramatically
effect
the entire region for the better as far as our national interests go.

It could, and by the same token, it might become an endless morass from
which we
would only be able to extricate ourselves at huge cost to our national
reputation, the respect we get as a nation from others, and the esteem in
which
others hold us. You probably didn't notice it, but the one country I left
out
of my list of potential targets was the one we should have learned
something of
value from, but apparently didn't.....Viet Nam.

Viet Nam was the left's war and we all fully understand that you lack the
political will to win a war Goonie.

That is why the American People have chosen to offer Democtats no leadership
role in the Federal Government, for two elections.

Don't let your cowardice cost my children more than your welfare check, old
fool.

John P. Tarver, MS/PE

Gooneybird wrote:

It could, and by the same token, it might become an endless morass from which we
would only be able to extricate ourselves at huge cost to our national
reputation, the respect we get as a nation from others, and the esteem in which
others hold us. You probably didn't notice it, but the one country I left out
of my list of potential targets was the one we should have learned something of
value from, but apparently didn't.....Viet Nam. We learned painful and
unpalatable lessons from that experience (which I, incidentally, completely
supported at the time), and I'm more than a little distressed to note that those
lessons seem to be disappearing behind the fog of political idealism.

Well of course critics have claimed every US involvement since Vietnam was going
to be another "Vietnam" and it doesn't seem to have happened. I think some
critics claimed "quagmire" in Afghanistan after only 3 weeks of fighting! Others
complain that because Iraq isn't now a shining example of democratic values, we've
failed.

Not saying Iraq can even become a real democracy. The US doesn't have an
especially good track record of installing democracy since WWII. But it
seems doable.

Nothing is really guaranteed, but never has been. WWII or the Civil War or
the Revolution were not done deals that everyone climbed on board with their
full support for the duration. Maybe WWII was the best of the bunch in this
regard, but even by 1945 apparently there were grumblings and discontent
over the demands of the war. And those wars could have been lost as well!

I think the grieving families of the past and future casualties we've had and
will continue to have in Iraq might possibly think otherwise, particularly
those amongst them who never gave a rat's ass for the Iraqi people in the past,
if indeed they had even heard of Iraq at all.

Wonder how many WWII families cared about Papua New Guinea, or Guadalcanal or
Tarawa. Probably not a lot even for some unknown mountainside in Italy or
river crossing in France.

You don't need to point solely to Vietnam as the origin for a lot of heartbreak
in people mourning the loss of a loved one in war.

Perhaps I need to remind you that our last major effort along those lines that
didn't involve Iraq resulted in our abandonment of our peacekeeping efforts in
Lebanon with nothing of value to show for the several hundred casualties we
sustained at the Beirut International Airport.

Lebanon was a wash from day one. Why we ever went there as "peace keepers" is
beyond me. Same goes for Somalia. There was no national interest in Somalia
and no possibility of success in Lebanon. The fact that leaders cut their
losses when they did was the best that could be achieved.

And of course we're still stuck in Bosnia and Kosovo, with no particular
exit criteria and little gain in national interest. It's a "feel good"
involvement covering for others that ought to be doing the job. If the going
got rough in either of those two places, we'd pull a Somalia or Lebanon and
be gone, and it would be the best thing that we could do.

I think there is some national will in favor of the goal of Iraqi involvement.
It has tremendous potential for favorable result for American national interests.
It seems doable. There will never be guarantees of easy success in any
non-trivial international undertaking.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion.

Of course! This is the internet!


SMH