A logging question

"Sylvain" wrote in message
...
snip
In the case you describe, you have a US PPL, you were flying a
whatever registered aircraft, I imagine a single engine land for which
you are rated on your US certificate, and were (I presume) the
sole manipulator of the controls: as far as the FAA is concerned, you
log this flight as PIC, whether there was an instructor on board or
not and regardless of the registration of the aircraft;

The proper authority for flight operations in Canada is the CARs, which are
the Canadian equivalent of the US FARs. The CARs are available on line
http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/re.../cars/menu.htm
but are hard to navigate and it is often difficult to find the proper
section.

IIRC and AFAIK, You must have a Canadian licence or permit in order to ACT
as PIC of a C-registered aircraft, and similarly you must have a US
certificate or ??? to ACT as PIC of an N registered aircraft.
see CARs 401.03(1)
http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/Re...401.htm#401_03
see also CARs 401.07(1) on the same page.
The holder of (only) a Canadian licence or permit is NOT permitted to act as
PIC of any non C-registered aircraft, see CARs 401.04
The validation of foreign licences is covered in CARs 421.07
http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/Re...ndards/421.htm
and see also
CARs Division VI 421.26 (6) (b)

Transport Canada (TC) does not use the 'sole manipulator of the controls'
terminology, so while you MAY be able to log this flight as PIC for FAA
purposes, you would not be able to ACT as PIC (or fly solo) or claim the
time as PIC for Transport Canada purposes. If the person ACTING as PIC is a
TC certified instructor then you could log the time as dual instruction
received but if the person ACTING as PIC is not a CFI then you could not
claim dual and would be considered to be acting as a passenger even if you
were the sole manipulator.

Strictly speaking, an instructors certificate is not required to give
instruction for a float endorsement (IIRC, Some ATPL or CPL with the proper
type and class ratings may give instruction for type and class to properly
(Canadian) licenced pilots, who may claim flight as either PIC and/or dual
instruction received)
see CARs Division III 425.21 (6) & (7)
http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/Re...425.htm#425_21
Many (most?) float plane instruction is not given by CFI instructors. There
is a requirement for some solo time (Canadian Licence or permit required)
and TO/landing cycles, see CARs Division X 421.38 (1)
http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/Re...s/421.htmAFAIK it is not difficult or expensive ($25?) to obtain a Canadianvalidation of a US airman's certificate and does not require a Canadianmedical (there are some conditions). I have been told that this validationprocess is much easier for USCanadian than for CanadianUS (since 911) andthat today it is almost impossible to obtain a US validation for a CanadianCPL, at one time these validations were permanent (subject to validity oforiginal licence) but now are issued for a 5? year term. YMMVGood luck & Happy landings,

On Mar 16, 8:01 am, "Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote:
Different kind of situation perhaps because I needed to get the Canada
Commercial pilot rating some 10 years ago. I had to take a Canada
medical, pass the Commercial pilot written (which was not nearly as
easy as the tests in the USA) and do some required dual instruction
prior to the check ride. The flying part was relatively easy.

fyi, a very recent bilateral agreement has made getting a Canadian
Commercial based on an FAA one (or vice versa) much easier.
Although the agreement took effect in Nov, I understand that details
on
how it is done are just filtering through the FSDOs and their Canadian
equivalents now.

Under the new rules, all that is required to get an unrestricted
Commercial in the other country is a medical for the other country,
passing a written Regs test for the other country and showing them
your license, etc. (This bilateral agreement also applies to
instrument
ratings.)

I'm thinking of getting an FAA Commercial, since it is now easy for
me to do.

It has always been pretty easy to get a restricted PPL for the other
country (restricted means that it is only valid when your other PPL
is valid). For that, I believe Transport Canada wants to see your
foreign license, a valid medical (can be an FAA one), proof of
citizenship and then you need to pass a little written test called
the PSTAR (the student pre-solo regs test here in Can).

Enjoy flying around Montreal. The French on the radio can
sometimes be confusing, but it's not too bad, rick
ps: As for logging, Transport Canada only recognizes PIC time
logged when you are Acting PIC, but I don't see why that
would affect how the FAA interprets it. I also believe that
somewhere in the FARs there is info about receiving
instruction from an instructor in other ICAO states. It
cannot be counted towards the time required for an
FAA certificate from a CFI, but can be counted towards
total flight time, I believe.

wrote:
On Mar 16, 8:01 am, "Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote:
Different kind of situation perhaps because I needed to get the Canada
Commercial pilot rating some 10 years ago. I had to take a Canada
medical, pass the Commercial pilot written (which was not nearly as
easy as the tests in the USA) and do some required dual instruction
prior to the check ride. The flying part was relatively easy.

fyi, a very recent bilateral agreement has made getting a Canadian
Commercial based on an FAA one (or vice versa) much easier.
Although the agreement took effect in Nov, I understand that details
on
how it is done are just filtering through the FSDOs and their Canadian
equivalents now.

Under the new rules, all that is required to get an unrestricted
Commercial in the other country is a medical for the other country,
passing a written Regs test for the other country and showing them
your license, etc. (This bilateral agreement also applies to
instrument
ratings.)

This is exactly what they told me. There appear to be a couple of
different permissions one can get. One is valid for 3 months, does not
require a medical, but cannot be repeated in the same year. The other
option, which I prefer, is with the medical, and one is issued a
permanent CA license.


I'm thinking of getting an FAA Commercial, since it is now easy for
me to do.

It has always been pretty easy to get a restricted PPL for the other
country (restricted means that it is only valid when your other PPL
is valid). For that, I believe Transport Canada wants to see your
foreign license, a valid medical (can be an FAA one), proof of
citizenship and then you need to pass a little written test called
the PSTAR (the student pre-solo regs test here in Can).

Enjoy flying around Montreal. The French on the radio can
sometimes be confusing, but it's not too bad, rick

Fortunately, I speak French. The Quebecois is sometimes a bit confusing,
though, and I'll stick to English on the radios. I was very pleased with
how friendly everyone was and the countryside is beautiful. I can't wait
to go a little further north from there.

ps: As for logging, Transport Canada only recognizes PIC time
logged when you are Acting PIC, but I don't see why that
would affect how the FAA interprets it. I also believe that
somewhere in the FARs there is info about receiving
instruction from an instructor in other ICAO states. It
cannot be counted towards the time required for an
FAA certificate from a CFI, but can be counted towards
total flight time, I believe.


Thanks for the feedback.

Regards,
Austin

Canada is a signatory so your USA medical should be valid.
INSTRUCTION RECEIVED from a licensed instructor in a
signatory nation applies and any time you fly counts as
experience, See Part 61.


CANADIAN FLIGHT Rules are quite different as to required
flight plans, altitudes and emergency equipment. Be sure to
follow their rules when north of the border.


"Austin Gosling" wrote in
message ...
| Hi all. I've been reading this group for a while, but this
is my first
| post here.
|
| I have a US PPL, and I travel to Montreal frequently on
business. I went
| over to the Montreal Flying Club at St. Hubert last week
to see about
| flying in Canada. Evidently, under reciprocal agreements,
I can easily
| get a Canadian license. Basically all I need are a
Canadian medical and
| a short written test.
|
| While I was there, I made a short flight up the St.
Lawrence with one of
| their instructors. I did all the flying, but I have logged
it as dual,
| but of course the tail number is a "C-....". The question
is, what are
| the rules regarding the time logged under a foreign
license? Can it be
| applied for requirements for advanced ratings on the US
side? Or does
| time in a "C-...." only apply for Canadian ratings?
|
| Also, if I were to get a Canadian license, then a seaplane
rating on it,
| for example, would the seaplane rating apply for my US
license? Can I
| get both upgraded at the same time?
|
| By the way, if you are ever in Montreal, I can highly
recommend a stop
| by the Montreal Flying Club at St. Hubert airport on the
south shore.
| Very nice folks and very well maintained aircraft. Also a
very nice
| little airport.
|
| Regards,
| Austin

"Private" wrote in message
news:4hAKh.25107$DN.14161@pd7urf2no...

"Sylvain" wrote in message
...
snip
In the case you describe, you have a US PPL, you were flying a
whatever registered aircraft, I imagine a single engine land for which
you are rated on your US certificate, and were (I presume) the
sole manipulator of the controls: as far as the FAA is concerned, you
log this flight as PIC, whether there was an instructor on board or
not and regardless of the registration of the aircraft;

The proper authority for flight operations in Canada is the CARs, which
are the Canadian equivalent of the US FARs. The CARs are available on
line
http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/re.../cars/menu.htm
but are hard to navigate and it is often difficult to find the proper
section.

IIRC and AFAIK, You must have a Canadian licence or permit in order to ACT
as PIC of a C-registered aircraft, and similarly you must have a US
certificate or ??? to ACT as PIC of an N registered aircraft.
see CARs 401.03(1)
http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/Re...401.htm#401_03
see also CARs 401.07(1) on the same page.
The holder of (only) a Canadian licence or permit is NOT permitted to act
as PIC of any non C-registered aircraft, see CARs 401.04
The validation of foreign licences is covered in CARs 421.07
http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/Re...ndards/421.htm
and see also
CARs Division VI 421.26 (6) (b)

Transport Canada (TC) does not use the 'sole manipulator of the controls'
terminology, so while you MAY be able to log this flight as PIC for FAA
purposes, you would not be able to ACT as PIC (or fly solo) or claim the
time as PIC for Transport Canada purposes. If the person ACTING as PIC is
a TC certified instructor then you could log the time as dual instruction
received but if the person ACTING as PIC is not a CFI then you could not
claim dual and would be considered to be acting as a passenger even if you
were the sole manipulator.

Strictly speaking, an instructors certificate is not required to give
instruction for a float endorsement (IIRC, Some ATPL or CPL with the
proper type and class ratings may give instruction for type and class to
properly (Canadian) licenced pilots, who may claim flight as either PIC
and/or dual instruction received)
see CARs Division III 425.21 (6) & (7)
http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/Re...425.htm#425_21
Many (most?) float plane instruction is not given by CFI instructors.
There is a requirement for some solo time (Canadian Licence or permit
required) and TO/landing cycles, see CARs Division X 421.38 (1)
http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/Re...ndards/421.htm

opps
AFAIK it is not difficult or expensive ($25?) to obtain a Canadianvalidation
of a US airman's certificate and does not require a Canadian medical (there
are some conditions). I have been told that this validationprocess is much
easier for USCanadian than for CanadianUS (since 911) and that today it is
almost impossible to obtain a US validation for a CanadianCPL, at one time
these validations were permanent (subject to validity oforiginal licence)
but now are issued for a 5? year term. YMMV

Good luck & Happy landings,

I note that Macklem has more current information below in this thread. Is
there a link to an announcement and application information?

TIA

"TheSmokingGnu" wrote in message
...
However, I believe FAR 91.75 (c) states that ratings earned on a foreign
license may be placed on your US license (while not specifying if testing
is necessary; only in reference "additional ratings"). So, if you earn a
rating on a Canadian PPL, it should be applicable over here as well.

Going the other way, Brits and others regularly take their edumacation and
ratings in the US.

On 2007-03-16 00:27:03 -0700, Austin Gosling said:

Hi all. I've been reading this group for a while, but this is my first
post here.

I have a US PPL, and I travel to Montreal frequently on business. I
went over to the Montreal Flying Club at St. Hubert last week to see
about flying in Canada. Evidently, under reciprocal agreements, I can
easily get a Canadian license. Basically all I need are a Canadian
medical and a short written test.

While I was there, I made a short flight up the St. Lawrence with one
of their instructors. I did all the flying, but I have logged it as
dual, but of course the tail number is a "C-....". The question is,
what are the rules regarding the time logged under a foreign license?
Can it be applied for requirements for advanced ratings on the US side?
Or does time in a "C-...." only apply for Canadian ratings?

Also, if I were to get a Canadian license, then a seaplane rating on
it, for example, would the seaplane rating apply for my US license? Can
I get both upgraded at the same time?

By the way, if you are ever in Montreal, I can highly recommend a stop
by the Montreal Flying Club at St. Hubert airport on the south shore.
Very nice folks and very well maintained aircraft. Also a very nice
little airport.

Regards,
Austin

You need to arise about two in the morning and get your gear set up so
that you can begin at first light. Be sure that you knock off by noon
or the forest will be too dry and present a fire hazard.

Oh, you meant a different kind of logging...

If you get the seaplane rating on your Canadian license, you just go to
an American FSDO and apply for a new certificate. The reciprocal
agreements apply both ways. The time you fly in a Candadian aircraft
applies for advanced ratings in the US.

Further questions probably should be directed to the FSDO as to the
actual mechanics of it.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

C J Campbell wrote:
On 2007-03-16 00:27:03 -0700, Austin Gosling
said:

Hi all. I've been reading this group for a while, but this is my first
post here.

I have a US PPL, and I travel to Montreal frequently on business. I
went over to the Montreal Flying Club at St. Hubert last week to see
about flying in Canada. Evidently, under reciprocal agreements, I can
easily get a Canadian license. Basically all I need are a Canadian
medical and a short written test.

While I was there, I made a short flight up the St. Lawrence with one
of their instructors. I did all the flying, but I have logged it as
dual, but of course the tail number is a "C-....". The question is,
what are the rules regarding the time logged under a foreign license?
Can it be applied for requirements for advanced ratings on the US
side? Or does time in a "C-...." only apply for Canadian ratings?

Also, if I were to get a Canadian license, then a seaplane rating on
it, for example, would the seaplane rating apply for my US license?
Can I get both upgraded at the same time?

By the way, if you are ever in Montreal, I can highly recommend a stop
by the Montreal Flying Club at St. Hubert airport on the south shore.
Very nice folks and very well maintained aircraft. Also a very nice
little airport.

Regards,
Austin

You need to arise about two in the morning and get your gear set up so
that you can begin at first light. Be sure that you knock off by noon or
the forest will be too dry and present a fire hazard.

Oh, you meant a different kind of logging...

If you get the seaplane rating on your Canadian license, you just go to
an American FSDO and apply for a new certificate. The reciprocal
agreements apply both ways. The time you fly in a Candadian aircraft
applies for advanced ratings in the US.

Further questions probably should be directed to the FSDO as to the
actual mechanics of it.

I'm a lumberjack, and I'm OK, I work all night and I sleep all day ...
Oh, not that kind of logging

Thanks for the info.

A certificate [license] issued on the basis of a US
certificate in Canada would have the same ratings that are
on the certificate you hold. It cannot be amended. It will
probably be limited to non-commercial operations [if based
on a commercial].
You can get a full license in the USA or Canada, using
experience from one or both countries and that license can
be amended only by a Form 8710, instructor sign off and
flight test. But the hours and such can be counted.
For example, if you have a US CP ASEL and go to Canada, they
can issue a license based on the commercial you hold with
those same rating and it will probably have the
limitation --Private privileges only--.
If you want a seaplane rating, you need to get a complete
issue of a Canadian license or take your flight test from a
USA CFI [who could be in Canada]. Once your base license is
amended, you can get a new --based on-- license with the new
ratings.


Canada can't amend a USA certificate and the USA can't amend
a Canadian certificate.


"Austin Gosling" wrote in
message ...
|C J Campbell wrote:
| On 2007-03-16 00:27:03 -0700, Austin Gosling
| said:
|
| Hi all. I've been reading this group for a while, but
this is my first
| post here.
|
| I have a US PPL, and I travel to Montreal frequently on
business. I
| went over to the Montreal Flying Club at St. Hubert
last week to see
| about flying in Canada. Evidently, under reciprocal
agreements, I can
| easily get a Canadian license. Basically all I need are
a Canadian
| medical and a short written test.
|
| While I was there, I made a short flight up the St.
Lawrence with one
| of their instructors. I did all the flying, but I have
logged it as
| dual, but of course the tail number is a "C-....". The
question is,
| what are the rules regarding the time logged under a
foreign license?
| Can it be applied for requirements for advanced ratings
on the US
| side? Or does time in a "C-...." only apply for
Canadian ratings?
|
| Also, if I were to get a Canadian license, then a
seaplane rating on
| it, for example, would the seaplane rating apply for my
US license?
| Can I get both upgraded at the same time?
|
| By the way, if you are ever in Montreal, I can highly
recommend a stop
| by the Montreal Flying Club at St. Hubert airport on
the south shore.
| Very nice folks and very well maintained aircraft. Also
a very nice
| little airport.
|
| Regards,
| Austin
|
| You need to arise about two in the morning and get your
gear set up so
| that you can begin at first light. Be sure that you
knock off by noon or
| the forest will be too dry and present a fire hazard.
|
| Oh, you meant a different kind of logging...
|
| If you get the seaplane rating on your Canadian license,
you just go to
| an American FSDO and apply for a new certificate. The
reciprocal
| agreements apply both ways. The time you fly in a
Candadian aircraft
| applies for advanced ratings in the US.
|
| Further questions probably should be directed to the
FSDO as to the
| actual mechanics of it.
|
| I'm a lumberjack, and I'm OK, I work all night and I sleep
all day ...
| Oh, not that kind of logging
|
| Thanks for the info.

On Mar 16, 2:22 pm, "
wrote:
On Mar 16, 8:01 am, "Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote:

Different kind of situation perhaps because I needed to get the Canada
Commercial pilot rating some 10 years ago. I had to take a Canada
medical, pass the Commercial pilot written (which was not nearly as
easy as the tests in the USA) and do some required dual instruction
prior to the check ride. The flying part was relatively easy.

fyi, a very recent bilateral agreement has made getting a Canadian
Commercial based on an FAA one (or vice versa) much easier.
Although the agreement took effect in Nov, I understand that details
on
how it is done are just filtering through the FSDOs and their Canadian
equivalents now.

Under the new rules, all that is required to get an unrestricted
Commercial in the other country is a medical for the other country,
passing a written Regs test for the other country and showing them
your license, etc. (This bilateral agreement also applies to
instrument
ratings.)

I'm thinking of getting an FAA Commercial, since it is now easy for
me to do.

It has always been pretty easy to get a restricted PPL for the other
country (restricted means that it is only valid when your other PPL
is valid). For that, I believe Transport Canada wants to see your
foreign license, a valid medical (can be an FAA one), proof of
citizenship and then you need to pass a little written test called
the PSTAR (the student pre-solo regs test here in Can).

Enjoy flying around Montreal. The French on the radio can
sometimes be confusing, but it's not too bad, rick
ps: As for logging, Transport Canada only recognizes PIC time
logged when you are Acting PIC, but I don't see why that
would affect how the FAA interprets it. I also believe that
somewhere in the FARs there is info about receiving
instruction from an instructor in other ICAO states. It
cannot be counted towards the time required for an
FAA certificate from a CFI, but can be counted towards
total flight time, I believe.

Is the same true for rotorcraft? In '94 when I got my TC Commercial
#408XXX the law was the rotorcraft was a completely different seperate
license. I wonder if that is still the same?
Cheers Ehh
OS&B