A tower-induced go-round

On Mar 16, 7:58 pm, "Jay Honeck" wrote:
Today we experienced a new first, when the tower controller at
Jefferson City, Missouri decided to cut a Cessa 172 in front of me on
a short right base, *after* clearing me to land on Rwy 30.

Incredulous, I slowed as much as possible, and watched as the 172 (who
was several hundred feet above us) struggled to lose enough altitude
to land safely. We were both bucking a 30 knot gusty headwind, which
-- although it allowed me to slow waaaay down -- did nothing but make
the poor, hapless Skyhawk keep flying, and flying, and flying....

Eventually he put it in a steep slip, and managed to touch down about
25% down the runway -- at which point he nearly stopped! Instead of
the tower telling the guy to land long and exit immediately -- the
runway is 6000 feet long -- the controller remained silent, as I
ground my way down final at minimum approach speed, way behind the
power curve, with a ground speed of maybe 50 knots.

Having landed at OSH and SNF a few times, I knew I was spaced just
fine -- IF the 172 would only get off the danged runway.
Unfortunately, he was in no hurry to do so, and the controller
blithely told me to "go around" in his most bored "controller voice"
-- as if he does this all day long.

Having just endured 20 minutes of fairly severe clear-air turbulence
during our descent from 7500 feet, I was *not* amused -- but bit my
tongue as I dutifully went around.

The guys in the FBO were all talking about it when we walked in.
Apparently the 172 pilot was a student (in which case he did a damned
good job getting that thing down), and the controller was...well, no
one would say what the controller was. However, I'm pretty sure we
know why he's been assigned to the deadest control tower in the
Midwest.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

I am not sure I would have gotten " behind the power curve" in gusty
conditions. A sooner bailout on your determination would have been
prudent. A 360 for spacing while still on final seems better then
dragging it in. After all you are PIC and responsible for the safety
of the flight. Glad you got home safely..

Ben

I am not sure I would have gotten " behind the power curve" in gusty
conditions. A sooner bailout on your determination would have been
prudent. A 360 for spacing while still on final seems better then
dragging it in. After all you are PIC and responsible for the safety
of the flight. Glad you got home safely..

Yeah, I thought about doing a 360, but it was so danged gusty that
turning at low altitude was very uncomfortable. (More for the family
than for me, of course.)

It was one of those days where, if you kept the wind on your nose, it
wasn't bad, but as soon as you turned and had the relative gusts
hitting you from the side, things got rolly-polly pretty quickly.
Nothing more uncomfortable (for me, anyway) than having turbulence
trying to lift the high wing to vertical in a turn.

Having landed at OSH and SNF a bunch of times, I'm pretty used to slow
flight and close spacing. Everything would have worked out, if the
controller had told the 172 to land long and exit immediately -- but
it wasn't to be.

No big deal, but at the end of a very long flight it was more work
than I needed.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

No big deal, but at the end of a very long flight it was more work
than I needed.

As my flight instructor used to say, consider it a "character building
exercise".

--
jr

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
ups.com...

Yeah, I thought about doing a 360, but it was so danged gusty that
turning at low altitude was very uncomfortable. (More for the family
than for me, of course.)



Aeronautical Information Manual
Official Guide to Basic Flight Information and ATC Procedures

Chapter 4. Air Traffic Control

Section 3. Airport Operations

4-3-5. Unexpected Maneuvers in the Airport Traffic Pattern

There have been several incidents in the vicinity of controlled airports
that were caused primarily by aircraft executing unexpected maneuvers. ATC
service is based upon observed or known traffic and airport conditions.
Controllers establish the sequence of arriving and departing aircraft by
requiring them to adjust flight as necessary to achieve proper spacing.
These adjustments can only be based on observed traffic, accurate pilot
reports, and anticipated aircraft maneuvers. Pilots are expected to
cooperate so as to preclude disrupting traffic flows or creating conflicting
patterns. The pilot-in-command of an aircraft is directly responsible for
and is the final authority as to the operation of the aircraft. On occasion
it may be necessary for pilots to maneuver their aircraft to maintain
spacing with the traffic they have been sequenced to follow. The controller
can anticipate minor maneuvering such as shallow "S" turns. The controller
cannot, however, anticipate a major maneuver such as a 360 degree turn. If a
pilot makes a 360 degree turn after obtaining a landing sequence, the result
is usually a gap in the landing interval and, more importantly, it causes a
chain reaction which may result in a conflict with following traffic and an
interruption of the sequence established by the tower or approach
controller. Should a pilot decide to make maneuvering turns to maintain
spacing behind a preceding aircraft, the pilot should always advise the
controller if at all possible. Except when requested by the controller or in
emergency situations, a 360 degree turn should never be executed in the
traffic pattern or when receiving radar service without first advising the
controller.

Except when requested by the controller or in
emergency situations, a 360 degree turn should never be executed in the
traffic pattern or when receiving radar service without first advising the
controller.

Yep, although I couldn't quote chapter and verse, this is what I
figured the rules were.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:
Except when requested by the controller or in
emergency situations, a 360 degree turn should never be executed in the
traffic pattern or when receiving radar service without first advising the
controller.


Yep, although I couldn't quote chapter and verse, this is what I
figured the rules were.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"



I did a 360 once in the pattern at a class D airport. the tower and the
conflicting traffic forgot about me. I was on final. he turned traffic
following me inthe pattern in front of me. The other traffic had no
awareness... I keyed the mike to let them know what was going on...
doh. got stepped on. did a 360 and then called AFTER. I was not
worried about doing something wrong - I was worried about getting killed
by the controller who dropped the ball and two pilots in the other plane
who were not paying attention to what the heck was going on in the pattern.

It happens too often. Do what you need to do to stay alive.

I did a 360 once in the pattern at a class D airport.

That's why I contend that Class D stands for "D'oh!", and is the most
dangerous airspace in America.

I'll take an uncontrolled airport over non-radar Class D, any day of
the week.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Mar 18, 5:57 pm, "Jay Honeck" wrote:
I did a 360 once in the pattern at a class D airport.

That's why I contend that Class D stands for "D'oh!", and is the most
dangerous airspace in America.

Sorry, Tim -- that came out sounding like I thought you were stupid
for making a 360 in the pattern. That's NOT what I meant -- I only
mean that Class D is a dangerous place, thanks to us relying on guys
in a tower with binoculars for spacing, and controllers relying on
guys in airplanes who don't know where the heck they really are.

I agree completely with your rationale for doing what you had to do.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:
I did a 360 once in the pattern at a class D airport.


That's why I contend that Class D stands for "D'oh!", and is the most
dangerous airspace in America.

I'll take an uncontrolled airport over non-radar Class D, any day of
the week.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"



I have been to many fine class D airports. I would take most over the
uncontrolled fields I have been. Cowboys for sure at the uncontrolled
airport near me. I was put on a waiting list at KFRG - glad I decided
to skip that. It is too busy - busier than the class c near here and
the controllers are rude. Then went to KHWV - that is a dangerous place
to fly - non-towered - insane amounts of scary piloting there and I am
finally at KISP - class C. I like it. Very professional people. Itis
nice to have radar services as the default and good for IFR flights
instead of going non towered.

I was at KPHF - that was a great class D.

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 15:57:15 -0700, Jay Honeck wrote:

I'll take an uncontrolled airport over non-radar Class D, any day of the
week.

I don't see it that way. Class D can be no worse than an uncontrolled
airport. It can be better.

But I do agree that a pilot is not absolved of situational awareness by
being in class D airspace, and too many pilot's fail to realize this.

I've posted this here before, but I think it worth repeating: the last
flight I took right-seat with a particular someone was when we were
approaching a class D and we'd a clear view of traffic on climb-out that
we knew from radio calls was closed traffic. That traffic and we were
destined to reach downwind at about the same time.

I suggested to my friend that he deviate a little so as to come into the
pattern behind that traffic. He said that it wasn't necessary as the
tower would keep us apart.

- Andrew