A tower-induced go-round

I am not sure I would have gotten " behind the power curve" in gusty
conditions. A sooner bailout on your determination would have been
prudent. A 360 for spacing while still on final seems better then
dragging it in. After all you are PIC and responsible for the safety
of the flight. Glad you got home safely..

Yeah, I thought about doing a 360, but it was so danged gusty that
turning at low altitude was very uncomfortable. (More for the family
than for me, of course.)

It was one of those days where, if you kept the wind on your nose, it
wasn't bad, but as soon as you turned and had the relative gusts
hitting you from the side, things got rolly-polly pretty quickly.
Nothing more uncomfortable (for me, anyway) than having turbulence
trying to lift the high wing to vertical in a turn.

Having landed at OSH and SNF a bunch of times, I'm pretty used to slow
flight and close spacing. Everything would have worked out, if the
controller had told the 172 to land long and exit immediately -- but
it wasn't to be.

No big deal, but at the end of a very long flight it was more work
than I needed.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

No big deal, but at the end of a very long flight it was more work
than I needed.

As my flight instructor used to say, consider it a "character building
exercise".

--
jr

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
ups.com...

Yeah, I thought about doing a 360, but it was so danged gusty that
turning at low altitude was very uncomfortable. (More for the family
than for me, of course.)



Aeronautical Information Manual
Official Guide to Basic Flight Information and ATC Procedures

Chapter 4. Air Traffic Control

Section 3. Airport Operations

4-3-5. Unexpected Maneuvers in the Airport Traffic Pattern

There have been several incidents in the vicinity of controlled airports
that were caused primarily by aircraft executing unexpected maneuvers. ATC
service is based upon observed or known traffic and airport conditions.
Controllers establish the sequence of arriving and departing aircraft by
requiring them to adjust flight as necessary to achieve proper spacing.
These adjustments can only be based on observed traffic, accurate pilot
reports, and anticipated aircraft maneuvers. Pilots are expected to
cooperate so as to preclude disrupting traffic flows or creating conflicting
patterns. The pilot-in-command of an aircraft is directly responsible for
and is the final authority as to the operation of the aircraft. On occasion
it may be necessary for pilots to maneuver their aircraft to maintain
spacing with the traffic they have been sequenced to follow. The controller
can anticipate minor maneuvering such as shallow "S" turns. The controller
cannot, however, anticipate a major maneuver such as a 360 degree turn. If a
pilot makes a 360 degree turn after obtaining a landing sequence, the result
is usually a gap in the landing interval and, more importantly, it causes a
chain reaction which may result in a conflict with following traffic and an
interruption of the sequence established by the tower or approach
controller. Should a pilot decide to make maneuvering turns to maintain
spacing behind a preceding aircraft, the pilot should always advise the
controller if at all possible. Except when requested by the controller or in
emergency situations, a 360 degree turn should never be executed in the
traffic pattern or when receiving radar service without first advising the
controller.

Except when requested by the controller or in
emergency situations, a 360 degree turn should never be executed in the
traffic pattern or when receiving radar service without first advising the
controller.

Yep, although I couldn't quote chapter and verse, this is what I
figured the rules were.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:
Except when requested by the controller or in
emergency situations, a 360 degree turn should never be executed in the
traffic pattern or when receiving radar service without first advising the
controller.


Yep, although I couldn't quote chapter and verse, this is what I
figured the rules were.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"



I did a 360 once in the pattern at a class D airport. the tower and the
conflicting traffic forgot about me. I was on final. he turned traffic
following me inthe pattern in front of me. The other traffic had no
awareness... I keyed the mike to let them know what was going on...
doh. got stepped on. did a 360 and then called AFTER. I was not
worried about doing something wrong - I was worried about getting killed
by the controller who dropped the ball and two pilots in the other plane
who were not paying attention to what the heck was going on in the pattern.

It happens too often. Do what you need to do to stay alive.

I did a 360 once in the pattern at a class D airport.

That's why I contend that Class D stands for "D'oh!", and is the most
dangerous airspace in America.

I'll take an uncontrolled airport over non-radar Class D, any day of
the week.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Mar 18, 5:57 pm, "Jay Honeck" wrote:
I did a 360 once in the pattern at a class D airport.

That's why I contend that Class D stands for "D'oh!", and is the most
dangerous airspace in America.

Sorry, Tim -- that came out sounding like I thought you were stupid
for making a 360 in the pattern. That's NOT what I meant -- I only
mean that Class D is a dangerous place, thanks to us relying on guys
in a tower with binoculars for spacing, and controllers relying on
guys in airplanes who don't know where the heck they really are.

I agree completely with your rationale for doing what you had to do.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:
On Mar 18, 5:57 pm, "Jay Honeck" wrote:

I did a 360 once in the pattern at a class D airport.

That's why I contend that Class D stands for "D'oh!", and is the most
dangerous airspace in America.


Sorry, Tim -- that came out sounding like I thought you were stupid
for making a 360 in the pattern. That's NOT what I meant -- I only
mean that Class D is a dangerous place, thanks to us relying on guys
in a tower with binoculars for spacing, and controllers relying on
guys in airplanes who don't know where the heck they really are.

I agree completely with your rationale for doing what you had to do.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"



I did not take it that way. Thanks for the follow up. Students really
need to be told to watch out for themselves - it is all too easy to
assume the controllers are omnipotent and never erring gods. The sooner
you see in training some screw-ups by controllers and other pilots, the
better off you are. Always watch out for yourself and be safe.

I don;t think I will ever find myself near Iowa City, but if I do your
place has been on my list for a while. Congrats on the longevity of the
endeavor.

Jay Honeck wrote:
I did a 360 once in the pattern at a class D airport.


That's why I contend that Class D stands for "D'oh!", and is the most
dangerous airspace in America.

I'll take an uncontrolled airport over non-radar Class D, any day of
the week.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"



I have been to many fine class D airports. I would take most over the
uncontrolled fields I have been. Cowboys for sure at the uncontrolled
airport near me. I was put on a waiting list at KFRG - glad I decided
to skip that. It is too busy - busier than the class c near here and
the controllers are rude. Then went to KHWV - that is a dangerous place
to fly - non-towered - insane amounts of scary piloting there and I am
finally at KISP - class C. I like it. Very professional people. Itis
nice to have radar services as the default and good for IFR flights
instead of going non towered.

I was at KPHF - that was a great class D.

"Tim" wrote in message
...

I have been to many fine class D airports. I would take most over the
uncontrolled fields I have been. Cowboys for sure at the uncontrolled
airport near me. I was put on a waiting list at KFRG - glad I decided to
skip that. It is too busy - busier than the class c near here and the
controllers are rude. Then went to KHWV - that is a dangerous place to
fly - non-towered - insane amounts of scary piloting there and I am
finally at KISP - class C. I like it. Very professional people. Itis
nice to have radar services as the default and good for IFR flights
instead of going non towered.

I agree about KFRG, the controllers are regulars at being jerks, I think
mostly because they are underqualified for what they have to deal with. I
was put in a hold over the bridge near the shore for 30 minutes with 10
other planes all looking to not crash into each other. I was glad for the
TIS-A that day. Finally I headed north and called up from the northeast
where I was promptly let into the pattern.

I trained and was based at KHPN and they have more traffic and a more
difficult mix what with students, spamcans, corporates and commuter
airliners. They rarely got surly and were much more accomodating. Perhaps
KFRG needs NY Approach to assign a squawk and sequence arrivals like they do
for KHPN.

KISP was always a joy to fly into. Much sleepier than KFRG.