Growth in soaring

After listening to recruiting strategies for several decades, it seems they
always follow fall into predictable generalizations. "Somewhere out there
exists a large group of people who, if they just knew of us, would break
down the doors to start flight training." The potential groups are usually
thought to be other pilots of airplanes or hang gliders. Sometimes it's
"get 'em young". It's always a simple answer that magically solves the
recruiting problem.
When we look at the present population of gliders pilots we see a bunch of
individuals, few of whom fall into any definable group. The search for a
'magic' recruiting solution that we haven't been able to find for 80+ years
seems to have failed. I think the reality is that we recruit new glider
pilots one-by-one. They can be from any demographic.

I'd suggest that we look closely at those we fail to recruit since failure
is often the best teacher. When you talk to them their first answer will be
"it costs too much". That's a standard, easy answer and, while it can be
true, it's usually not the real reason they are walking away. Press further
and you hear more truthful reasons. They aren't flattering but you have to
listen.

"This place is a dump". "Why would I want to hang around here?" is near the
top of the list. When viewed in that light, you have to admit that most
airports are at best industrial slums. Gliderports seem to be the worst.
Why is it that almost every gliderport is at the end of a long washboarded
dirt road? Try spiffing up the place with some paint and landscaping.

"It's not too friendly around here", is another often heard complaint. What
every glider operation needs is a designated "official greeter". This
person is probably the most important on the field. Make it a real job.

"You guys are hard to find", is a third. My experience is that if the
operation has a phone, it rings three or four times an hour with people
asking for information about gliding. Usually, these calls end up on an
answering machine. Even at commercial operations with a staff, the person
answering calls sometimes has little real interest in soaring beyond selling
a ride. With simple techniques like call forwarding, anyone, anywhere can
take those calls. Get club members to take calls on a rotating basis. An
informed, enthusiastic human voice answering questions goes a long way to
getting a new member.

These are just three ideas, but implemented together, they could go a long
way toward a turnaround.

Bill Daniels





"Tony Verhulst" wrote in message
...

Some SSA chapters have had very successful, on-going youth programs.
Youth involvement is structured on a value-added, performance based
program.
http://www.texassoaring.org Youth Program (about 35 total involved Feb
2006, including a then 17-year old tow pilot)
http://www.harrishillsoaring.org/ Junior program (some good video
links in RAS a while back)

Add to that, the Greater Boston Soaring Club. So popular that there is a
waiting list for the youth program. See http://soargbsc.com - click on
"Junior Program".

Tony V.

snip
What every glider operation needs is a designated "official
greeter".
This person is probably the most important on the field. Make it a
real job.
/snip

As a relative newcomer to the sport, I say the above is very good
advice.

Most of the places I've visited have been very friendly, but when I
decided to take lessons in 2003 and reported to the nearest soaring
school, I felt like I was interrupting them, even when I announced I
wanted to come back for more! (The rest of the training experience was
great.)

-ted/2NO

Bill Daniels wrote:


seems to have failed. I think the reality is that we recruit new glider
pilots one-by-one. They can be from any demographic.

I'd suggest that we look closely at those we fail to recruit since failure
is often the best teacher. When you talk to them their first answer will
be
"it costs too much". That's a standard, easy answer and, while it can be
true, it's usually not the real reason they are walking away.

Bill, i agree with most what you are saying, except that. The clubs in
France have tried a lot to solve the problem using the techniques you
describe below. They have websites, phones, people try to be friendly,
gliderports try to be nice, etc. etc.

But the absolutely *most* important reason why they don't recruit, is that
it is too expensive in time and money. There are people having money but not
time, people having time but not money, but people having both are mostly
retirees, and experience shows that, contrary to what has been said by
other posters, gliding is *not* a sport for retirees.

The reason why it is too expensive is because gliders and towing are too
expensive, period. In clubs here everything else is basically ensured by
volunteers and is gratis.

Press
further
and you hear more truthful reasons. They aren't flattering but you have
to listen.

"This place is a dump". "Why would I want to hang around here?" is near
the
top of the list. When viewed in that light, you have to admit that most
airports are at best industrial slums. Gliderports seem to be the worst.
Why is it that almost every gliderport is at the end of a long washboarded
dirt road? Try spiffing up the place with some paint and landscaping.

"It's not too friendly around here", is another often heard complaint.
What
every glider operation needs is a designated "official greeter". This
person is probably the most important on the field. Make it a real job.

"You guys are hard to find", is a third. My experience is that if the
operation has a phone, it rings three or four times an hour with people
asking for information about gliding. Usually, these calls end up on an
answering machine. Even at commercial operations with a staff, the person
answering calls sometimes has little real interest in soaring beyond
selling a ride. With simple techniques like call forwarding, anyone,
anywhere can
take those calls. Get club members to take calls on a rotating basis. An
informed, enthusiastic human voice answering questions goes a long way to
getting a new member.

These are just three ideas, but implemented together, they could go a
long way toward a turnaround.

Bill Daniels

I think that is nonsense. As long as youngsters can afford to go paragliding
(did you ever look into the cost of paragliding?) or skiing, money isn't the
problem.

"Michel Talon" wrote in message
...
But the absolutely *most* important reason why they don't recruit, is that
it is too expensive in time and money. There are people having money but
not
time, people having time but not money, but people having both are mostly
retirees, and experience shows that, contrary to what has been said by
other posters, gliding is *not* a sport for retirees.

The reason why it is too expensive is because gliders and towing are too
expensive, period. In clubs here everything else is basically ensured by
volunteers and is gratis.

Press
further
and you hear more truthful reasons. They aren't flattering but you have
to listen.

"This place is a dump". "Why would I want to hang around here?" is near
the
top of the list. When viewed in that light, you have to admit that most
airports are at best industrial slums. Gliderports seem to be the worst.
Why is it that almost every gliderport is at the end of a long
washboarded
dirt road? Try spiffing up the place with some paint and landscaping.

"It's not too friendly around here", is another often heard complaint.
What
every glider operation needs is a designated "official greeter". This
person is probably the most important on the field. Make it a real job.

"You guys are hard to find", is a third. My experience is that if the
operation has a phone, it rings three or four times an hour with people
asking for information about gliding. Usually, these calls end up on an
answering machine. Even at commercial operations with a staff, the
person
answering calls sometimes has little real interest in soaring beyond
selling a ride. With simple techniques like call forwarding, anyone,
anywhere can
take those calls. Get club members to take calls on a rotating basis.
An
informed, enthusiastic human voice answering questions goes a long way to
getting a new member.

These are just three ideas, but implemented together, they could go a
long way toward a turnaround.

Bill Daniels

I agree with you Bert.

I came into the sport in 2003 after a long "career" in skydiving. The
long-term participation costs are comparable; the cost to get licensed
to "fly solo" is roughly the same; and while the cost of owning your
own high quality equipment is much higher in gliding, the ongoing
costs of skydiving are higher (a single weekend of jumping in the
early 90s cost me about $250 in jump tickets alone). I had many
friends, wearing all color of collars from pool cleaners to college
professors, who didn't think twice about spending $10-$15,000 per year
on their sport, for the simple reason that they loved it.

So I don't buy the expense argument. Sure, it's a factor. But the
expense of skydiving, which I believe has exceeded the rate of
increase of gliding, has not stopped its membership rolls from
steadily increasing the last two decades.

I, personally, do not believe there's enough marketing. I lived in
Southern Arizona for 13 years and never heard of Arizona Soaring Inc
(Estrella) until I looked for a place to take instruction. Turf, on
the other side of Phoenix, advertised glider rides on a local radio
station, but never mentioned instruction.

Do I have the answer? No. But like the days when I was excited about
skydiving, I share my joy of soaring with whoever will listen (and a
few who won't , and shamelessly plaster my office walls with photos
of my daughter sitting in my glider.

-ted/2NO

Bert Willing wrote:
I think that is nonsense. As long as youngsters can afford to go paragliding
(did you ever look into the cost of paragliding?) or skiing, money isn't the
problem.


I think we are living in totally different sides of the society. I live
in a side where researchers and professors, and i don't speak of
students have barely enough money to support their family, and not to go
skying or other high expense stuff. I am old enough to have known a time
when very ordinary workers were able to afford gliding, and were the
majority of gliding clubs. With reasonings such as yours, these people
have gradually been excluded from clubs.

--

Michel TALON

Well,

If you pay a glider 72,000 Euros and can get 12,000 hours out of it, the
amortization of the glider is 6 Euros per hour. That's not expensive.

In my club here in Switzerland we have people from all parts of society
(even school boys), we have all sorts of expensive gliders, and we have
aeroto launching.

If you go to Vinon or to Challes, it's the same thing. I don't see the
people you talk about being excluded from soaring through cost.


"Michel Talon" wrote in message I think we are
living in totally different sides of the society. I live
in a side where researchers and professors, and i don't speak of
students have barely enough money to support their family, and not to go
skying or other high expense stuff. I am old enough to have known a time
when very ordinary workers were able to afford gliding, and were the
majority of gliding clubs. With reasonings such as yours, these people
have gradually been excluded from clubs.

--

Michel TALON

Bert Willing wrote:
Well,

If you pay a glider 72,000 Euros and can get 12,000 hours out of it, the
amortization of the glider is 6 Euros per hour. That's not expensive.

In my club here in Switzerland we have people from all parts of society
(even school boys), we have all sorts of expensive gliders, and we have
aeroto launching.

If you go to Vinon or to Challes, it's the same thing. I don't see the
people you talk about being excluded from soaring through cost.


Here around Paris, i see that gliders are rented at a much higher price
that what you mention. Let me take the CVVFR which is known to be one of
the least expensive in the region, runned only by volunteers, so there
is absolutely nothing here devoted to salaries. Everything is published
on the web, easily accessible at http://cvvfr.free.fr
Price is
LS4-Janus-Pegase 17,40 euros/hour
LS 8, 15, 18 mètres 23,50 euros/hour
Duo-Discus 30,60 euros/hour

or, and this is a novelty, there is a possibility to pay a global sum

"Forfait heures illimitées"

On ASK21, ASK23, LS4, Janus, Pégase 1000 euros 1350 euros

i suppose that 1000 is for people aged less than 25.

To that you need to add the club cotisation and insurances. Let us say
around 300 euros if you come in winter to work on gliders or around
450 euros otherwise.

And then, cherry on the cake

Towing at 500 meters 20 euros ( aged 25) 23 (aged more 25)

So i clearly see something of the order of 2000 euros/year, and i am
quite sure you will have hard time to find less expensive while still
decent around Paris - and by the way i doubt very much it is less
expensive in the Alps.

Beleive it or not, 2000 euros is a non negligible sum for a lot of
people, particularly for those who have a lot of free time in their
hands to go to the gliderport. I am not speaking of the case of people
who can afford the luxury to buy their own glider. Anf finally there are
skying clubs also, and youngsters can afford to go skying using such
services for a fraction of the above cost. Myself being a parent, i know
i would have difficulties forking the above sum of money for each of my
children if they did want to do gliding, while i had no problem with
skying.




--

Michel TALON

These prices are not bad, and the amount I cited only covers the
amortization of the glider (which is not the only cost involved).
Youngsters in France still get a reasonable amount of money as a"bourse",
and when I was starting gliding at the age of 16, I never asked my parents
to pay the bill, but I moved my ass and did some little jobs to earn money.
Of course, my parents helped me a little bit, but they wouldn't have had the
means to pay it all.
Now, if youngsters switch to the "assisted mode", they may well stay with
their Nintendos.


"Michel Talon" wrote in message Here around
Paris, i see that gliders are rented at a much higher price
that what you mention. Let me take the CVVFR which is known to be one of
the least expensive in the region, runned only by volunteers, so there
is absolutely nothing here devoted to salaries. Everything is published
on the web, easily accessible at http://cvvfr.free.fr
Price is
LS4-Janus-Pegase 17,40 euros/hour
LS 8, 15, 18 mètres 23,50 euros/hour
Duo-Discus 30,60 euros/hour

or, and this is a novelty, there is a possibility to pay a global sum

"Forfait heures illimitées"

On ASK21, ASK23, LS4, Janus, Pégase 1000 euros 1350 euros

i suppose that 1000 is for people aged less than 25.

To that you need to add the club cotisation and insurances. Let us say
around 300 euros if you come in winter to work on gliders or around
450 euros otherwise.

And then, cherry on the cake

Towing at 500 meters 20 euros ( aged 25) 23 (aged more 25)

So i clearly see something of the order of 2000 euros/year, and i am
quite sure you will have hard time to find less expensive while still
decent around Paris - and by the way i doubt very much it is less
expensive in the Alps.

Beleive it or not, 2000 euros is a non negligible sum for a lot of
people, particularly for those who have a lot of free time in their
hands to go to the gliderport. I am not speaking of the case of people
who can afford the luxury to buy their own glider. Anf finally there are
skying clubs also, and youngsters can afford to go skying using such
services for a fraction of the above cost. Myself being a parent, i know
i would have difficulties forking the above sum of money for each of my
children if they did want to do gliding, while i had no problem with
skying.




--

Michel TALON

On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 17:49:41 +0000 (UTC),
(Michel Talon) wrote:

Price is
LS4-Janus-Pegase 17,40 euros/hour
LS 8, 15, 18 mètres 23,50 euros/hour
Duo-Discus 30,60 euros/hour

Pretty amazing prices (I think at Soissons it's significantly
cheaper). I definitely couldn't have afforded to start up gliding in
your club, nor would I have fun today if I calculated the cost for a
simple 500 km triangle...


So i clearly see something of the order of 2000 euros/year, and i am
quite sure you will have hard time to find less expensive while still
decent around Paris - and by the way i doubt very much it is less
expensive in the Alps.

I wonder what you are doing with all that money. Do you need to rent
your airfield?

In my club (with gliders at least as good as yours) the total cost per
year doesn't exceed 600 Euros per year.


Bye
Andreas