P-47/51 deflection shots into the belly of the German tanks, reality or fiction?

Subject: P-47/51 deflection shots into the belly of the German
tanks,reality
From: (John S. Shinal)
Date: 8/6/03 12:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

Bill Shatzer wrote:

Though I must admit, I find the "ricochet theory" a bit (OK, a whole
bunch!) unbelievable. On most surfaces, MG bullets would not ricochet
at all - they would simply bury themselves in the ground. On the surfaces
where they -might- ricochet, they would be badly deformed, tumbling
greatly, lost considerable energy, and with just about zero
penetration. I suppose once, somewhere, sometime, it might have
happened.

These color gun camera films I've seen lately are instructive.
A lot of what I've seen are grass & dirt airfields, unimproved graded
(but not hard-surfaced) roads, etc. Not conducive to ricochets, right?
But in fact (to my surprise) there are a BUNCH of ricochets, some of
which are apparently tracers, some probably flying spall and debris,

It depends on theangle of incidence. If the angle is too steep on a soft
surface there wil be little ricochet. But if the angle is shallow there will
be a lot more. Think of skipping stones across a lake.


but all of it hot & glowing, bouncing all over the place and clearly
rebounds from the target area.

It also impressed upon me that many of the pilots strafing
weren't particularly accurate - in many cases, not even remotely
accurate.

The again there were many pilots who were deadly accurate



But as a standard tactic, it seems a way to shoot off a
lot of ordinance to no particular effect.

Not true,

The film attests that this is prett much spot on.

Spot on my ass. Look at more films.




Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

On 6 Aug 2003, ArtKramr wrote:

-snips-

It depends on theangle of incidence. If the angle is too steep on a soft
surface there wil be little ricochet. But if the angle is shallow there will
be a lot more. Think of skipping stones across a lake.

The rocks I selected for stone skipping on lakes were shaped rather
differently than .50 cal MG rounds. And, were imparted a rather different
rotation.

I never tried to skip an elongated rock with a rotation at right
angles to, rather than parallel to, the water surface but I can't believe
that would work at all well.

Certainly not sufficiently well to penetrate tank armor, even the
relatively thin undersurface armor.

But, you could probably scare the hell out of the folks inside.

Cheers and all,

Subject: P-47/51 deflection shots into the belly of the German
tanks,reality
From: Bill Shatzer
Date: 8/6/03 11:13 PM Pacific

I never tried to skip an elongated rock with a rotation at right
angles to, rather than parallel to, the water surface but I can't believe
that would work at all well.

Try it and get back to us. There is no substitute for experience.

Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

(ArtKramr) wrote in message ...
Subject: P-47/51 deflection shots into the belly of the German
tanks,reality
From: Bill Shatzer
Date: 8/6/03 11:13 PM Pacific

I never tried to skip an elongated rock with a rotation at right
angles to, rather than parallel to, the water surface but I can't believe
that would work at all well.

Try it and get back to us. There is no substitute for experience.

I recall being told, in my target-shooting days, of a range which had
a lake between the firing point and the targets. On a calm day with no
ripples, they found that if they aimed at the reflection of the target
the bullets would ricochet off the water and hit the target. Of
course, the angle was very shallow.

Tony Williams
Military gun and ammunition website: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk
Discussion forum at: http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/