A tower-induced go-round

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
Why would the presence of a control tower render airspace unsafe?

I wouldn't agree with that, but it could be a risk factor.

There's a phenomenon that's been observed that people change their safety
margins in the face of safety equipment. People wearing bicycle helmets
tend to cycle in a riskier manner; people with ABS brakes drive a little
faster, and a little more aggressively, trusting the brakes to save them
if needed.

I suspect this is also a factor when there's a tower -- people let up on
their traffic scan, and lose some common sense, assuming the controller
won't let anything bad happen to them.

.... Alan
--
Alan Gerber
PP-ASEL
gerber AT panix DOT com

"Alan Gerber" wrote in message
...

I wouldn't agree with that, but it could be a risk factor.

There's a phenomenon that's been observed that people change their safety
margins in the face of safety equipment. People wearing bicycle helmets
tend to cycle in a riskier manner; people with ABS brakes drive a little
faster, and a little more aggressively, trusting the brakes to save them
if needed.

I suspect this is also a factor when there's a tower -- people let up on
their traffic scan, and lose some common sense, assuming the controller
won't let anything bad happen to them.


It appears many pilots believe ATC provides VFR/VFR separation in Class D
airspace. It's not the presence of the control tower that's responsible for
any perceived decrease in safety, it's ignorant pilots.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
It appears many pilots believe ATC provides VFR/VFR separation in Class D
airspace. It's not the presence of the control tower that's responsible for
any perceived decrease in safety, it's ignorant pilots.

That's sort of a chicken-and-egg question. I agree with you, but the net
result is that class D airspace *can* be more dangerous, due to the
presence of those ignorant pilots. And it's definitely more dangerous for
exactly those ignorant pilots.

I trained at a class D airport, and my instructor made very sure that I
knew exactly what the controllers were there for, and what they weren't
there for.

.... Alan
--
Alan Gerber
PP-ASEL
gerber AT panix DOT com

It appears many pilots believe ATC provides VFR/VFR separation in Class D
airspace. It's not the presence of the control tower that's responsible for
any perceived decrease in safety, it's ignorant pilots.

Ah, forever the non-radar Class D controller's cop-out. "We only
provide sequencing, not separation."

In other words, you THINK you know where we are, and you HOPE we'll
follow your directions, and you PRAY it will all work out, and we had
BETTER follow your instructions (or else!) -- but, oh, shoot, it
*didn't* work out when I directed both of you to land on the same
runway? Dang, sorry about that -- we were only providing sequencing
(not!) -- it was up to YOU to not actually hit each other.

To which I say: Either give the poor sap in the tower radar, or stay
home. Go away. Save our tax money and possibly our lives. Uncontrolled
airports work just fine, thank you very much, and I'll trust my
skills, and the skills of my fellow airmen before I EVER again trust a
guy on the ground with binoculars.

We don't need Class D'oh! faux air traffic "control", anywhere.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...
...and I'll trust my
skills, and the skills of my fellow airmen before I EVER again trust a
guy on the ground with binoculars.

I just had the weirest flashback/visual of Arte Johnson, in that goofy
German costume on Laugh-In, peering over the sandbags with binoculars...

Recently, Jay Honeck posted:

To which I say: Either give the poor sap in the tower radar, or stay
home. Go away. Save our tax money and possibly our lives. Uncontrolled
airports work just fine, thank you very much, and I'll trust my
skills, and the skills of my fellow airmen before I EVER again trust a
guy on the ground with binoculars.

I don't agree. In the case of closely spaced airports with many kinds of
traffic, I would think it is good to know the local activity. An example;
Cleveland's Burke Lakefront airport (Class D) is close enough to Hopkin's
Class B's first layer (2000') that all local VFR is scooting under that,
and by the time you've left Burke's airspace to the East, you're in
Cuyahoga County airport's Class D space, which is still under Hopkin's
4,000. Both County and Burke have BizJet traffic as well as GA, and Burke
has a lot of helo traffic as well. I don't think that making those
airports uncontrolled would make that airspace safer. On some days it gets
your adrenalin flowing fast to fly in there.

Neil

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...

Ah, forever the non-radar Class D controller's cop-out. "We only
provide sequencing, not separation."


What makes that a cop-out?



In other words, you THINK you know where we are, and you HOPE we'll
follow your directions, and you PRAY it will all work out, and we had
BETTER follow your instructions (or else!) -- but, oh, shoot, it
*didn't* work out when I directed both of you to land on the same
runway? Dang, sorry about that -- we were only providing sequencing
(not!) -- it was up to YOU to not actually hit each other.


Not me, I've never worked a non-radar tower. I also doubt those that do
think that.



To which I say: Either give the poor sap in the tower radar, or stay
home. Go away. Save our tax money and possibly our lives. Uncontrolled
airports work just fine, thank you very much, and I'll trust my
skills, and the skills of my fellow airmen before I EVER again trust a
guy on the ground with binoculars.


So you'll be driving to AirVenture from now on.



We don't need Class D'oh! faux air traffic "control", anywhere.


I can't see any competent pilot having the problems that you have with Class
D airspace. It's become obvious the problem is you, your skills are just
not up to it. For your own safety and the safety of others you should just
avoid Class D airspace until you upgrade your skills and knowledge.

On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 22:55:40 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote in
. net:

For your own safety and the safety of others you should just
avoid Class D airspace until you upgrade your skills and knowledge.

Oh, his skills are probably up to the task, but his expectations are
inconsistent with regulations. He really needs to get his IFR rating.

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...

Oh, his skills are probably up to the task, but his expectations are
inconsistent with regulations. He really needs to get his IFR rating.


If he can't handle Class D airspace he certainly can't handle the IFR
system.

On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 23:44:57 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote in
.net:


"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
.. .

Oh, his skills are probably up to the task, but his expectations are
inconsistent with regulations. He really needs to get his IFR rating.


If he can't handle Class D airspace he certainly can't handle the IFR
system.


Not without additional training.