A tower-induced go-round

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:
Yet he expects ATC to provide separation to VFR aircraft in Class D
airspace.

Where did he make that explicit claim? Jay Honeck has stated a least this
much in this thread:

"In Class D'oh airspace, on the other hand, too many pilots believe that
the controller is actually controlling the airspace, when, in fact, he is
not."

On Mar 23, 11:49 am, Jim Logajan wrote:

Where did he make that explicit claim?


Who said it was explicit?

http://groups.google.com/groups?as_u...oglegroups.com

On Mar 23, 10:51 am, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:
On Mar 23, 10:04 am, " wrote:



Kool,,, New ammunition....

And again you shoot yourself in the foot.







Once again that Steven. P. Mc Nicoll is right on the money. His
observation of "No separation services are provided for VFR aircraft"
can cut several different ways. The tower controller didn't care how
close he routed Jay to the higher and slower preceding aircraft so if
they happen to run together he gets a ' get out of jail card' for free
by spouting off this reg. Since Class D controllers can't provide
separation why should a VFR pilot even wake them up to land, we will
just announce our intentions just like it was a uncontroller field and
land. G

Now for the best part, If, this user fee crap does get passed, I will
travel VFR from one Class D airport to another, land at every one I
can find and when presented a bill I will have already printed up a
Steven. P McNicoll kit. This kit consists of a laminated card stating
the AIM reg of "No separation services are provided to VFR aircraft".
No service provided... No need to bill me for a service.. And if they
still insist on presenting me with a bill I will invoke the Steven. P
McNicoll clause, that is to take said bill, head to the closest
toilet, take a dump and then wipe myself with it. Since it was issued
by the government, and Stevens employer, who happens to be 9+ trillion
in debt, it isn't worth the paper it is printed on. Second when I am
through it will be smeared with **** and the smell will always remind
me of this thread.... ).

Ok Jay, you can quit giggling now....- Hide quoted text -

"No separation services are provided for VFR aircraft" in Class D
AIRSPACE. All control towers, whether the overlying airspace is Class
B, C, D, E, or G, provide RUNWAY separation. Minimum same runway
separation between two piston singles is 3000 feet. Recall that Jay
said he was about 1/2 mile out from the threshold when the 172 touched
down 1500' from the threshold. Let's see if you're any better at
simple arithmetic than you are at answering simple questions.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

ha ha. This gettin fun. You have posted 28 times to this silly thread.
Real controllers are taught to be short and to the point with their
answers. What we have here folks is a MX Mc Nicoll..... I bet he
doesn't even have a Pilots cert.

wrote in message
oups.com...

ha ha. This gettin fun.


You find amusement in appearing stupid?



You have posted 28 times to this silly thread.
Real controllers are taught to be short and to the point with their
answers.


That is amusing. In the past others have complained about my brevity.



What we have here folks is a MX Mc Nicoll..... I bet he
doesn't even have a Pilots cert.


Is a pilot's certificate required to post here?

Jay holds a private, the Part 61 knowledge requirements for a private
include, "use of the applicable portions of the 'Aeronautical
Information Manual' and FAA advisory circulars". The AIM states in
the description of Class D airspace, "No separation services are
provided to VFR aircraft." That's also stated in the Pilot/Controller
Glossary, part of the AIM, in the description of Class D airspace.
Yet he expects ATC to provide separation to VFR aircraft in Class D
airspace. Obviously the training he has received to date has been
deficient, or just didn't get through. I see no reason to believe
he'd take IFR operations any more seriously.

*sigh* No where did I ever say that I expect the Class D'oh!
controllers to provide separation services. I neither expect it, nor
want it from them, because quite frankly they couldn't do it if they
tried. Not without radar.

Which is my point. The controllers at these non-radar facilities do,
effectively, NOTHING. They need to simply admit that fact, pack up
their binoculars, save the taxpayers a bundle, and go home.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
ups.com...

*sigh* No where did I ever say that I expect the Class D'oh!
controllers to provide separation services. I neither expect it, nor
want it from them, because quite frankly they couldn't do it if they
tried. Not without radar.

Which is my point. The controllers at these non-radar facilities do,
effectively, NOTHING. They need to simply admit that fact, pack up
their binoculars, save the taxpayers a bundle, and go home.


The point is, Jay, you lack a proper understanding of Class D airspace and
ATC. In the interest of safety you should avoid all controlled fields until
you can gain that understanding.

wrote)
...... I bet he doesn't even have a Pilots cert.


I'll take that bet!


Montblack

Get it now?

I sure do. You hold an incorrect understanding of Class D airspace and ATC
and you hold controllers responsible for pilot's actions.- Hide quoted text -

Wrong again? Dang.

Well, at least you're consistent.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
ups.com...

Wrong again? Dang.

Well, at least you're consistent.


You're short on integrity.

wrote:

The tower controller didn't care how
close he routed Jay to the higher and slower preceding aircraft so if
they happen to run together he gets a ' get out of jail card' for free
by spouting off this reg.

It would cost the FAA millions, already has. It is irrelavant that the
rules say controllers don't separate airplanes in the air within the
class D. If two aircraft run together while talking to the tower you
the taxpayers will buy both airplanes and compensate the families.








Maintain situational awareness - class D controllers are only
responsible for separation on the ground



Would you like to bet $25 Million on that statement?


A Broward jury has awarded $25.2 million to the family of a pilot killed
in a collision of two planes near Deerfield Beach almost three years ago.

The family of Steve Ross, a Boca Raton chaplain, filed the
wrongful-death suit against Robinson Aviation, a private contractor
operating the Boca Raton and Pompano Beach control towers.

Ross, who is survived by his wife and four children, was one of five
people who died when two small planes crashed in the water off Deerfield
Beach on June 16, 2003.

The jury in Circuit Judge Victor Tobin's courtroom Wednesday awarded
$1.2 million for economic damages and, for pain and suffering, $10
million to Ross' wife, Julie, and $3.5 million to each of the four children.

Steve Ross and a longtime friend, Douglas Bauer, 48, were flying a
Cessna 182 north to Boca Raton Airport. They were returning from a
missionary trip in the Bahamas and had just cleared U.S. Customs at Fort
Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport.

A Cessna 172, with a family of three aboard, was headed south to Fort
Lauderdale Executive Airport. At the controls was private pilot Johnny
Mark Willey, 39, of Margate, who was learning to be an airline pilot at
Gulfstream Training Academy. Willey was taking his wife and daughter for
a ride along the coast.

The two planes plowed into each other about 1,000 feet above the
Deerfield Beach International Fishing Pier and plunged into the water as
stunned beachgoers looked on.

According to the suit, the planes collided moments after both pilots
made contact with air-traffic controllers in Pompano Beach and Boca Raton.

"Robinson Aviation . . . otherwise directed or failed to direct air
traffic so as to avoid the midair collision of the two aircraft," the
suit reads.

Attorneys for Robinson Aviation could not be reached for comment Wednesday.

The Ross family settled with Gulfstream Training Academy for an
undisclosed amount more than a year ago, contending that Willey was "not
fit, qualified or properly trained."