Annual Off to a Good Start

Why don't you sump your tanks? It's not just water you should be
concerned about. How do you know you're buying clean fuel? I doubt
your FBO would vouch for the cleanliness of the fuel they're selling.

Dave
M35



Newps wrote:



Peter R. wrote:
On 3/21/2007 11:10:10 PM, Newps wrote:
The new tanks now a days are very flexible.

Just for my future reference, what are the signs that a bladder needs
replacing? Rubber chunks in the fuel sampler cup? Fuel stains or an
obvious
leak under the wing? Something else?



I rarely sump my tanks, pretty much only after parking outside
overnight. Look for the blue stain on the underside of the wing
along the wing spar line. Check the fuel vent line thru the inspection
hole, the nipple for the vent line is what broke on my tank causing gas
to leak out every time the bladder was filled. I put up with that for
about 6 months before replacing the tank. Also check the gaskets for
the fuel filler and fuel senders. They can get loose and leak.

How do you
get a Cherokee tank out? Derivet? Remove a wing?


Actually, it ain't bad. You remove the 48 structural screws that make it
a part of the wing (been there, done that to both tanks). If you can
spot the leak and it is one of the "usual" suspects (overflow hose or
sending unit gasket) you are home free. If it is one of the rivets you
have a little longer trip home. Jay was able to get at it and rebuck it
down. Most times, you send the thing out to get completely dismantled,
reriveted back together and sealed. Around $400 per tank.

Mike

Jay, Our Annual is about done.. should be able to pick up the Tug tomorrow..
Monday AM to Fri PM.

Biggest hit was $1AMU, for the right side parking brake valve. The 1x1x2inch
box had a crack in the fitting and was seeping fluid at the rate of
requiring a brake top off every 3 months.

We were clean on the Superior AD20070419, and clean on the lift strut
AD99-04-16. I knew we would miss the Superior AD, it is for cylinders
manufactured in 2005. Although we overhauled the O-540 in 2005, we kept our
1999 cylinders.

Just a lot of nit noid clean up work on the fuselage and fabric.

I get to ferry it back home tomorrow evening.. sure is nice to have DST a
few weeks early. No night flying in that beast. About 30 miles direct, but
about 45 miles as I need to fly to get around the Class B.

BT


"BT" wrote in message
...
Good reports Jay.. our Pawnee with the O540 just started the annual today
also.. as it was just rebuilt two years ago, with the 250HP STC up from
235HP and fixed pitch prop... all is well so far.. just researching
AD20070419 to document that it does not apply (Superior Aircraft
Cylinders) ours are from 1999.

BT

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
ups.com...
Although I am starting to resent the whole annual inspection process.
More on that in a minute.

All compressions on our O-540 are 78 or better out of 80, so that's
always a relief. The oil filter was clean (as always), and the exhaust
system is sound. Those are three big-ticket items off the list --
always a relief.

As always, however, the inspection process itself has created some
problems. The stupid tail cone must be removed to inspect the
stabilator hinges and trim jack screw, which means torquing on
nutplates attached to plastic. (Whoever approved THAT **** on a
certified plane?)

Of course at least one of the nutplates has to twist off the old,
brittle plastic, resulting in a repair bill where none was necessary.
Same goes for removing the umpteen screws on the access panels. Does
a 4" by 6" inspection panel REALLY need 9 easily strippable screws to
hold it on? Wouldn't TWO (or 3?) done the job? Stupid.

My A&P could only smile and commiserate with me. He says that there
is a move afoot to make the "annual" inspection an every-other-year
affair, which makes good sense to me. It therefore has no hope of
approval.

More good news: I unscrewed the 6.3 million stainless steel structural
screws to remove the starboard main fuel tank, to search for our fuel
leak. (Classified as a "stain" -- not a "seep" -- by my A&P) My
forearms are still burning, because I didn't want to risk stripping
any of my expensive stainless screws, so I did 'em all by hand.

We found a problem right away -- a seeping rivet -- and were able to
fix it without resorting to sending the tank out for a complete
teardown and overhaul.

He used his rivet gun (while I bucked the rivets) to tighten down the
whole row of rivets around the offending rivet, and then applied fuel
tank sealant to the INSIDE of the tank on that rivet row. In an
amazing stroke of luck, that leaking rivet was accessible by reaching
through the fuel tank filler -- a one in a hundred chance.

Then we found another seeping rivet from under the sealant around the
fuel gauge sending unit. That simply required another dab of fuel
tank sealant, and (hopefully!) my leaky tank is now history.

Tomorrow we start on the interior, which means removing all the seats,
and the floor under the back seats. My A&P is eager to get back to
working on his P6 Hawk biplane, which is almost ready for its first
flight -- so we should be done with my annual in record time!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:
This is why you leave everything really loose - like, each screw only
engaged a couple of turns - until you've got all the screws in.

That's what REALLY ****ed me off -- I did that! I thought I was so
damned smart, just finger-tightening each screw before torquing them
all down -- and that last screw STILL kicked my butt.

Maybe the screws involved are much shorter than I'm picturing in my
head, but it seems like there ought to be lots of turns between "only a
couple of threads engaged" and "finger tight". If they're countersink
head, finger tight means the countersink on the screw is already
touching the countersink on the panel and constraining the movement of
the panel somewhat. If the screws are long enough, you should be able
to thread them in such that the clearance hole in the panel is still
floating around the shank of the screw.

I did get a little experience in this direction when I helped R&R a
cowl on a 172. The screws on that were countersink head Phillips and
about an inch long overall. I don't know if that's how long they were
supposed to be, but it was pretty easy to get things lined up when
reinstalling. I could engage the screw a couple of turns and go on
to the next one, and still have a little "wiggle room" to get things
to line up. Once I had all the screws started, the owner put the
electric screwdriver on them (carefully) to drive them all the way home.

Matt Roberds

"Mike Spera" wrote in message
hlink.net...

How do you get a Cherokee tank out? Derivet? Remove a wing?


Actually, it ain't bad. You remove the 48 structural screws that make it a
part of the wing (been there, done that to both tanks). If you can spot
the leak and it is one of the "usual" suspects (overflow hose or sending
unit gasket) you are home free. If it is one of the rivets you have a
little longer trip home. Jay was able to get at it and rebuck it down.
Most times, you send the thing out to get completely dismantled, reriveted
back together and sealed. Around $400 per tank.

Mike

Or.............................You get at it, rebuck it, reinstall
it..........then wait 5 weeks till it starts leaking again. Then you send
it out to be done correctly!

Karl

I'd sure rather swap a bladder in a Bonanza than fix a leaking Mooney
tank. Working with very bad chemicals thru a small hole is no fun at
all.

On the Bonanza, doing the snaps in the correct order helps. You can
also snap them from the TOP of the bladder which is much easier than
working
through the fuel cap hole.

Bill Hale



Despite Jay's tale of woe, pulling a Cherokee wing tank is a matter of
removing some 10-32 structural machine screws and sliding the whole
thing out (in one piece) out of the wing. Repairs are just like any
other "wet-wing" structure, but you have the piece of wing laying on
the workbench, with ready access to the majority of the rivets.
Getting the screws out can be a real bitch, but it doesn't involve any
rivets, snaps or duct tape. The composite Cherokee tip tank is another
story-I'd rather have a bladder any day of the week.

BTW, why did you charge yourself labor for changing out a bladder?

TC

Every time I read one of these 10,000 Phillips screw stories;
I think "Wonder if they could put in Torx instead.."

I helped on a friend on a transmission swap on his BMW 520i. Lots
of Torx. Also needed some trim screws out; guess what they were...and
which was the real PITA.

--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

David Lesher wrote:
Every time I read one of these 10,000 Phillips screw stories;
I think "Wonder if they could put in Torx instead.."

I helped on a friend on a transmission swap on his BMW 520i. Lots
of Torx. Also needed some trim screws out; guess what they were...and
which was the real PITA.

I'm using Torx on the plane I'm building in several access panel locations.

On 23 Mar 2007 10:12:18 -0700, "
wrote:


I'd sure rather swap a bladder in a Bonanza than fix a leaking Mooney
tank. Working with very bad chemicals thru a small hole is no fun at
all.

On the Bonanza, doing the snaps in the correct order helps. You can
also snap them from the TOP of the bladder which is much easier than
working
through the fuel cap hole.


BTDT (Bonanza and Mooney). The chemicals aren't bad IMHO, it's the
initial eval and clean-up and figuring out where to put the chemicals.

Don't get the wrong impression, installing a new OEM bladder is a
pretty normal maintenance task - less cleaning out all the old tape
and residue, banging down any rivets or sheet metal edges and
re-taping.

The problem is in installing certain aftermarket tanks and pretty much
any repaired/refurbed tank.

I'm 6' 3"/210# and am allegedly usually the guy that can reach (or
gets stuck reaching) the hard-to-reach snaps. Bo' and Baron bays
aren't bad. But it ain't as easy as yanking a wing tank out of a
Cherokee.

TC

I'm using Torx on the plane I'm building in several access panel locations.

That is SO smart.

Is it illegal to subsitute Torx (or square-drive) screws in
certificated aircraft? If so, why?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"